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-   -   New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentance (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=18322)

SDG 09-05-2008 06:38 AM
New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentance
 
From another thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 582644)
Okay, prosecutor. I'll be even more to the point, if that is possible.

When we first come to the Lord our sins are not forgiven at repentance. They are forgiven at baptism through a work of the Spirit and the blood of Christ.

Any sins we may commit after our new birth are forgiven at repentance when the blood of Christ, once again, washes away our sins. We don't need to be rebaptized every time we sin after our initial baptism in Jesus name.
Sniff ... sniff ... sniff ...

FALSE DOCTRINE ALERT!!!!

You stand with the Roman church on that one, Mizzy ...

Not even Bernard or most of the 3 step crowd has gone that haywire.

Do you agree w/ Mizpeh in her new-fangled 3 step doctrine that our sins are not forgiven at repentance?

Rhoni 09-05-2008 06:41 AM
Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 
Daniel,

Don't be so hard on "M". Truth is many of our Apostolic friends do not know the scriptures or how to defend their belief system.

*hugs*
Rhoni

Tim Rutledge 09-05-2008 06:49 AM
Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 582832)
From another thread:

Sniff ... sniff ... sniff ...

FALSE DOCTRINE ALERT!!!!

You stand with the Roman church on that one, Mizzy ...

Not even Bernard or most of the 3 step crowd has gone that haywire.

Do you agree w/ Mizpeh in her new-fangled 3 step doctrine that our sins are not forgiven at repentance?
Our sins are remitted, after we are baptised in Jesus name, following repentance.

timlan2057 09-05-2008 06:52 AM
Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 
Hmmm ... let's see, I guess we need a new song.

"At the Cross" isn't good enough.

At the creek,
At the creek,
Where I first saw the light
And the burdens of my heart rolled away,
It was there by water I received my sight
And now I go sputtin' all the day ...

By the way, we've heard that little catch phrase in all our lives ... another UPC saying that sounds good and soothes the masses but no one really knows what it means.

Now will one of you great theologians elaborate well and be specific and tell me what the difference is between FORGIVENESS and REMITTANCE?

timlan2057 09-05-2008 07:00 AM
Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 
Actually, whether admitted or not ... forget all this stupid arguing about where the blood is applied.

To a "three-stepper", your sins are not forgiven until you've spoken in tongues.

If not ... why not?

Will any three stepper say you can go to heaven without speaking in tongues?

Well, if your sins are forgiven, remitted or whatever in the first or second step but you never take the third ...

Doesn't THAT mean all your sins are forgiven but you can't go to heaven because you haven't spoken in tongues?

To keep from being placed in a ridiculous position, a "three stepper" must believe your sins are not forgiven until you've spoken in tongues - that in itself being a ridiculous position.

Once again ... if not - why not?

Tim Rutledge 09-05-2008 07:13 AM
Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by timlan2057 (Post 582843)
Actually, whether admitted or not ... forget all this stupid arguing about where the blood is applied.

To a "three-stepper", your sins are not forgiven until you've spoken in tongues.

If not ... why not?

Will any three stepper say you can go to heaven without speaking in tongues?

Well, if your sins are forgiven, remitted or whatever in the first or second step but you never take the third ...

Doesn't THAT mean all your sins are forgiven but you can't go to heaven because you haven't spoken in tongues?

To keep from being placed in a ridiculous position, a "three stepper" must believe your sins are not forgiven until you've spoken in tongues - that in itself being a ridiculous position.

Once again ... if not - why not?
Ye must be born again of the Spirit. If you do not have the Holy Ghost you are none of his.

When repentance is coupled with baptism in the Name of Jesus, the curse of sin is lifted, and you are born of the water. John 3:3-5 very plainly states this is essential to see and enter into the Kingdom of God.

1st PETER 3:21.. Baptism saves us.

What is your understanding of the above verses?

Baron1710 09-05-2008 07:17 AM
Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by timlan2057 (Post 582843)
Actually, whether admitted or not ... forget all this stupid arguing about where the blood is applied.

To a "three-stepper", your sins are not forgiven until you've spoken in tongues.

If not ... why not?

Will any three stepper say you can go to heaven without speaking in tongues?

Well, if your sins are forgiven, remitted or whatever in the first or second step but you never take the third ...

Doesn't THAT mean all your sins are forgiven but you can't go to heaven because you haven't spoken in tongues?

To keep from being placed in a ridiculous position, a "three stepper" must believe your sins are not forgiven until you've spoken in tongues - that in itself being a ridiculous position.

Once again ... if not - why not?
They realize that denying forgiveness of sins at repentance is problematic and makes no sense which is why I had to ask and ask and re-ask, (thus the comment "ok prosecutor") the same question. Instinctively they know that to say "yes your sins are forgiven at repentance" would be equal to saying one is saved, thus the continual dodging of the question.

Baron1710 09-05-2008 07:19 AM
Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 
Tim R.

Simple one question.

Are your sins forgiven when you ask God to forgive you at repentence?

Tim Rutledge 09-05-2008 07:27 AM
Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710 (Post 582849)
Tim R.

Simple one question.

Are your sins forgiven when you ask God to forgive you at repentence?
When it is coupled with Baptism, in the Name of the One that died for you.

1st Peter 3:21 and John 3:3-5. What is your take on thiese scriptures?

Baron1710 09-05-2008 07:30 AM
Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge (Post 582851)
When it is coupled with Baptism, in the Name of the One that died for you.

1st Peter 3:21 and John 3:3-5. What is your take on thiese scriptures?
I am going to save us both a lot of time and just post the dance from last night. feel free to skip to the end and join Rome, or be converted and become a Christian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710 (Post 582421)
Weird. What happened to those forgiven sins? Why are they still standing between the one who repented and God? did god not really forgive them at repentance?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710 (Post 582428)
What happens when one repents?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 582505)
Where in the bible can I find remission at repentance and receiving the Spirit at faith?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 582509)
Because "making a decision for Christ" is not always the same as repentance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710 (Post 582525)
Se you wanna run away anytime you are confronted with these passages and demand that everyone else harmonize that with one interpretation of acts 2:38, instead of interpreting Acts 2:38 by the rest of Scripture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 582527)
No doubt repentance is linked to salvation but it is not salvation in and of itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstew (Post 582529)
Yes, but what verse equates forgiveness with salvation? Is that all salvation means to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710 (Post 582530)
Again you refuse to start with repentance you want to run ahead and throw other things in there.

Simple question does God forgive your sins when you Repent?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710 (Post 582531)
If sin is the issue and sin is forgiven the logical result is salvation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstew (Post 582532)
I'm not talking the logical deduction...that is dangerous ground. I'm talking the scriptural position that salvation is simple forgiveness and no more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstew (Post 582540)
There is danger in logic outside of a Scriptural assertion in my opinion. If the very elect are going to be deceived, by definition it will be a function of their wrong thinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710 (Post 582543)
Well lets walk through this does God forgive our sins when we ask him to in repentance?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 582604)
Initial forgiveness is at baptism. It involves a Spiritual circumcision in which the body of sins is totally removed, blotted out, washed away. After this initial remission any further forgiveness is upon confession and repentance with the blood washing away the new sins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710 (Post 582606)
Pay real close attention, don't change the question don't answer another one.

Does God forgive our sins when we ask forgiveness in repentance?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster (Post 582620)
I choose maybe, sorta, or "I don't want to answer a question that you already know my answer to.":tease
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710 (Post 582622)
I guess I don't know. Apparently it is difficult to choose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710 (Post 582629)
Still does not address the question, and the reason you won't is clear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 582630)
You're the one who went to an Apostolic Bible college, not me. You must know that there is a difference between the initial forgiveness of sins and any further remission of sins once a believer has become a part of the body of Christ. 1 John 1:7 is written to Christians in all their developmental stages not to sinners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 582633)
Hmmmm, I thought I was very clear. Crystal clear even. What don't you understand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710 (Post 582636)
You refuse to say that God doesn't forgive sins at repentance yet you refuse to say he does. He either does or doesn't. You made a comment that I went to Bible College, that is when the light bulb came on for me, sitting in Segraves class on Romans.

I am out for the night later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 582644)
Okay, prosecutor. I'll be even more to the point, if that is possible.

When we first come to the Lord our sins are not forgiven at repentance. They are forgiven at baptism through a work of the Spirit and the blood of Christ.

Any sins we may commit after our new birth are forgiven at repentance when the blood of Christ, once again, washes away our sins. We don't need to be rebaptized every time we sin after our initial baptism in Jesus name.


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