Middle East Peace
 

This is a constant struggle in my mind.

God promised the land of modern day Israel to Abraham and his descendants. God ordered Joshua to ethnically cleanse the land. Do any of these old testament commands apply to modern day Jews?

God's word now tells us to love our neighbors as ourselves, turn the other cheek, pray for our enemies.

What claim do modern day Jews have to the land of Israel? What old testament scripture can you provide that supports the modern day claim of Jews to the land of Israel?

Should Palestinians be denied claims to the land of Israel in light of the new testament?

your comments please...help me put my mind at ease

Re: Middle East Peace
 

Come on DM, we know that the OT is given to us as a type and shadow of the Spiritual war we fight now.

We are to cleans ourselves of ALL unrighteousness. those nations that plagued Israel were types of sin.

I beleive that those that bless Israel will be blessed and those that curse Israel will be cursed but I dont thikn there is any way you can suggest that ethinc cleansing should be allowed by anyone.... and Thank God Israel isnt suggesting that.... However, the Palistinians certainly have suggested that Israeli's be purged from the earth.


I think you have the question wrong. It isnt because of the NT that Plaistinians should be denied claims to the land that is Israel, it is that they should be denied the land that is Israel because it isnt there's and never was!

Not to mention that these are remnants of a people that attacked Israel and lost a war. Those Arabs that lived in the region that didnt attack Israel were allowed to stay and are citizens in every way of the nation of Israel.

Re: Middle East Peace
 

Ferd, thanks for your response, but you failed to answer my primary question: What claim do modern day jews have to the land of Israel?

Palestinians were born in Israel, why shouldn't they have a claim to the land?

Re: Middle East Peace
 

Indeed DM...

But the points you are making are on the dark side of the moon for Ferd.

He cannot see that side of the argument.

Re: Middle East Peace
 

YHWH called Avram to go into the land that we know as Canaan or Palestine almost 2000 years ago. When he got to the land after some delay, YHWH appeared to him and promised to give that land to his descendants (see Genesis 12:1-8, 6-7). This promise was repeated in Genesis 13:14-18 when God said it would belong to Avram and his seed forever. In Genesis 15:1-21 YHWH promised the land to a descendant who would be of Avram's lineage and He and Avram "cut a covenant" to verify that promise. In Genesis 17:1-8 YHWH repeats that the land would go to Avram and his seed forever. After the birth of Ishamel, God made it plain that the intended seed for inheritance purposes was Isaac (ref Genesis 21:12-13) but Ishmael would also become a nation. In Genesis 26:1-5 YHWH appeared to Isaac and promised that he was the seed of Avram who would inherit the land. In Genesis 28:10-15 and 35:9-12 YHWH appears to Jacob/Israel and repeats the promise of the land and says it will go to Jacov/Israel and his seed.

In Psalm 105, many years later, this covenant to Abraham, then Isaac, then Jacob is spoken of as possession of the land of Canaan as an everlasting covenant. In Genesis 15:18-21 the borders are given fo the land which was to go to Israel for an everlasting possession. As far as I know, Israel has never possessed all of that territory yet. In my opinion, it is still their God-given promise.

Re: Middle East Peace
 

Who are the people that are designated as "Palestinians" now?
What ethnic group are they?
What is their origin?

Re: Middle East Peace
 

Good question Sam.

Who are the Palestinians?

Re: Middle East Peace
 

What claim does anyone have to any land? None of us are truly "indigenous."

Remember Paul McCartney's "Give Ireland Back to the Irish?" The Protestants in Ulster are the descendants of English who were settled among the "wild" Irish but remained separate. Shouldn't they all "go back to England?" Makes some sense, except they've been in Ulster for more than 500 years. How long do you have to be somewhere before it's "your land?"

According to Irish annals, even the "native" Irish Celts took the island by conquest; so who does this land really belong to? And America? The "Indians" want it back from the "whites." But I've got a good part of Cherokee in me so can I stay?

But there's a problem here too. The Cherokee are an Algonquin people from the Great Lakes region. They too must have supplanted some other people from the land they inhabited before being supplanted by the descendants of the European invaders. And even those people traveled from Beringia at the close of the last Ice Age, so it wasn't really "their" land either.

Re: Middle East Peace
 

Sam, I read psalm 105 and agree the land belongs to jews from a religous perspective, but what should be done about palestinians with current laws against genocide or apartheid racism? I have heard they are of Greek descent, Philistines or even Arabs.

Re: Middle East Peace
 

Most of them are the unfortunate descendants of a breeding project intended to create human misery.

Throughout the Ottoman period Palestine became a wasteland. Swamps (or "wetlands") formed due to poor drainage in the region. Malaria was pandemic. Almost all of the inhabitants of the area were nomadic throughout the 1800's and the early 1900's and even later. Yasser Arafat, the leader of the PLO was in fact born in Egypt proper because Gaza was nearly uninhabitable in the summer months. Pilgrims to Jerusalem faced a dangerous trip just going from Jaffa to Jerusalem. Due to its elevation, Jerusalem was relatively pleasant and free from that adiabatic heating the plagued the lowlands.

It was the transient nature of the populace that caught the attention of European "Zionists." They saw a land that had once supported a stable population but was now a "waste." This attracted many Jewish (and Christian sympathizers) to endorse a resettlement of Jews into the region.

This, of course, was a grave offense to the sensibilities of the Ummah (the Muslim people). They believed that Islam was fated to take over the entire world eventually and had the globe neatly divided into two spheres: "Dar al-Islam" (The Land of Submission) and "Dar al-Harb" (The Land of War). The Holy Land (to Jews and Christians) had been conquered by Islam in the 7th century and then reconquered from the Crusader states 500 years later. There was to be no giving up of "lost" territory.

Most of the current "Palestinian" population is comprised of the former citizens of Jordan and Egypt and their descendants. In 1967 Israel won Gaza and the West Bank from those 2 nations. Rather than flee, most of the people stayed in their homes. Moshe Dayan in fact pleaded with them to remain, promising them that they would not be harmed.