The thief on the cross and baptism...
 

Assuming that Jesus meant the thief would go to heaven, this story shows that faith alone is enough to save.

I know one common argument to my assertion is that this story falls under the old covenant. However, I marvel at this argument because if Jesus forgave the thief under the old covenant for not obeying the law then how much greater shall Christ's forgiveness be toward us who live not under the law but under the new covenant of grace?

Therefore even if baptism is required under the new covenant, then those that either do it wrong or don't do it at all still have hope because Christ has already shown by forgiving the thief on the cross, that if a person has sincere faith then Christ can forgive that person of not obeying God's covenant.

Re: The thief on the cross and baptism...
 

Maybe that was the first thing they took care of in Paradise, that day! (And talking in tongues was the second thing!) :lol

Re: The thief on the cross and baptism...
 

Under the Old Covenant, God has granted forgiveness outside of the animal sacrifice ritual.

When Jonah preached in Nineveh, the whole city repented. I doubt if they all made a trip to Jerusalem and offered sacrifices and then started keeping the Law.

Psalms 32 and 51 are thought to be David's repentance after he had committed adultery and had the woman's husband killed so he could marry her. Notice verses 16 and 17 of Psalm 51:
16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Legally, David could have faced the death penalty but God had mercy.
Besides, he was the king, who could have brought charges and lived?

Re: The thief on the cross and baptism...
 

The first person to whom Jesus specifically claimed to be the Christ/Messiah was a woman at a well in Samaria. She had been through 5 husbands and was living with someone she was not married to. She was a Samaritan and they had their own version of Judaism. Yet she became a great evangelist and brought many from her city to Jesus.

John chapter 8 tells the story of the woman caught in adultery. Legally, she and the man involved could have been executed. How did Jesus handle that?

Technically until the death of the Testator (Jesus) the Old Testament did not end, yet, during the time of Jesus' earthly ministry it was a time of transition. The old covenant was passing and the new was dawning. Jesus spoke to a Jewish leader/teacher/ruler and told him that his first birth (born of water) was not sufficient and he needed a second birth (born of the Spirit) and Jesus told him that He and His disciples knew of an had seen people who had been born again.

And, another technicality. Jesus promised paradise to the thief while they were both alive. Then Jesus died first, followed later by the thief. So we can theologize and speculate as long as we want to but the thief was saved the way people always have been --by faith.

Re: The thief on the cross and baptism...
 

Also consider this... Jesus was functioning as the theif's high priest, offering up himself as a sacrifice for sin. In this way, Christ satisified the Law for the theif's salvation.

If that theif could speak to us today, I believe that he'd say, "Hey, turn from sin and obey, being water baptized in Jesus name, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. I wish I could have experienced the fulness of what Jesus came to provide, but were were still under the law. You're so free, now simply obey."

Re: The thief on the cross and baptism...
 

What is he missing, now? Is his eternal reward any less, because he couldn't be baptized and filled with the HG here on Earth? Why would he be envious of "us"?

Re: The thief on the cross and baptism...
 

Timmy, there's more to all of this than just going to Heaven. We under the New Covenant have an opportunity to be closer to God and know him far more intimately than anyone under the Law. The theif would marvel at how naturally and intimately we talk to God today.

Re: The thief on the cross and baptism...
 

Do you think that folks under the old covenant talked any less intimately to God than we do?

I understand that under the old covenant, the teaching about God mostly likened him to a disciplinarian, but there were those folks who talked to God, and he talked to them audibly, thru a burning bush, thru a donkey, etc.

I'm not saying that the New Testament mode of salvation can bring folks fulfillment in this life, but as Timmy says, is the eternal reward any less?

And, I'm sure if you asked Abraham, Moses, Elijah, Samuel, and a host of others if they thought their relationship and communication with God could get any better, they may say "no".

I know that David often talked of feeling that God was ignoring him, he felt depressed, discouraged, etc.....but, that's not different than many Spirit filled Christians feel today.

This is a very interesting discussion.........

Re: The thief on the cross and baptism...
 

Mike, in your opinion what are the better promises of this Kainos Covenant?

Hebrews 8:6

But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.

Re: The thief on the cross and baptism...
 

I think a good discussion on covenant would be rooted in examining the 3 major models ...

1. Dispensationalism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism

2. New Covenant Theology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Covenant_Theology

3. Covenant Theology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_theology


I think my views lie in between 2 and 3 ... mainly in 3.