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Omniscient God, or free will?

Does God know the future? If so, doesn't that mean that all of our choices are already made [for us]? and that free-will is just an illusion?

OR

God does not know our future, and we have free will??

Re: Omniscient God, or free will?

Door number 3

God's foreknowledge of our choices does not predestine our choices

Re: Omniscient God, or free will?

This is one of the oldest philosophical questions. Lots of good answers but none are conclusive.

Personally, I just accept the paradoxical nature of the question as EP has illustrated.

Re: Omniscient God, or free will?

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Predicador (Post 890986)

Door number 3

God's foreknowledge of our choices does not predestine our choices

agreed

Re: Omniscient God, or free will?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkley (Post 890974)

you've set up a false dichotomy.

The quote below is from Jason Dulle's blog:

Quote:

Many have wondered how, if God knows everything we will do in the future, can we be said to have free will? After all, if we freely chose to do something other than what God foreknew, God would be wrong in what He foreknew; but since God cannot be mistaken we must do all that He foreknew we would do. Doesn’t this reduce us to mere actors, playing out the parts written for us by God? Are we puppets who have no control over our own actions? Darwinist, Robert Eberle, encapsulates this supposedly intractable problem of free agency in light of an omniscient God nicely: “Aside from his simple declarations without any foundation that he believes certain biblical stories and miracles are true, he runs into major problems. One is the claim that God knows what was, is and will be. Collins asserts that there is still free will, but fails to explain his logic for arriving at this extraordinary conclusion. Either what will be is known and fixed or it is not. An infallible god that knows what is going to happen is in conflict with the idea that there is free choice and thus a responsibility for one’s actions.”[1]

While it is true that the future is fixed because God perfectly knows all that will happen and cannot be mistaken, this does not mean He fixes the future. It does not follow that God’s foreknowledge of our future acts causes us to choose those acts anymore than my knowledge of your past actions would make me the cause of your acts. As William Lane Craig has argued, we do not do what God foreknows, but rather God foreknows what we will do. In other words, God’s foreknowledge is not the cause of our actions; our actions are the cause of God’s foreknowledge. While God’s knowledge of all future contingent acts may be chronologically prior to those acts, the acts themselves are logically prior to God’s knowledge. While God knows for certain what will happen in the future, our free choices inform the foreknowledge of which He is certain. His foreknowledge does not necessitate/determine our choices. If we would have freely chosen to do X rather than Y, God would know X for certain rather than Y. But in God’s foreknowledge He knows we will freely choose Y, and thus is certain that we will choose Y.

Re: Omniscient God, or free will?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 891028)

you've set up a false dichotomy.

The quote below is from Jason Dulle's blog:

You and Jason both appear to have missed out on the part where God is morally responsible for His foreknowledge.

It's like a man who leaves a loaded gun on a table accessible to young children. Even frail human beings can have a bit of foreknowledge to see how events may unfold. Therefore, by law (in this state anyhow) the man is both civilly and criminally responsible for the outcome of events if any harm should befall. "He should have known..." the investigating officers will say and the judge will concur.

The same can be said of God (the reasoning goes). God, through His foreknowledge knows the outcome of every event - including those events with moral consequences. Therefore, by choosing to either intervene or not to do so, God will actually predestine individuals to either heaven or hell.

Free will is an illusion if there is truly a God (the reasoning goes). God's own foreknowledge of our actions and choices determines our fate. Either He intervenes and "unloads the gun" and we are saved, or He chooses not to do so and we suffer the harm.

Romans 8:28-30

It was because of his atheism that Jean Paul Sartre said, "We are doomed to be free," in response to this question. If there is no God, then there is no "intervention" and all of the "guns" are liable to go off.

Re: Omniscient God, or free will?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais (Post 891035)

I can't speak for Jason.

Quote:

God's own foreknowledge of our actions and choices determines our fate.

Would you explain this a little more clearly, please? I would say God bases his choices upon his foreknowledge of our choices.

Have you heard of middle knowledge?

Quote:

“Molinism teaches that God exercises His sovereignty primarily through His omniscience, and that He infallibly knows what free creatures would do in any given situation.” (pg 5) This allows for God to indeed be sovereign, but it also allows for man to be truly free in that his choices truly are his own, and count as something other than a necessary response to Divine stimuli. Because God knows all things He knows all possibilities as well as which possibilities are feasible. In other words, God not only knows what could happen, He knows what will happen in any given circumstance, and He chooses to create the world in which all circumstances and choices bring the most glory to His name. In the world that God chose He both knows all things and man is free to make his own choices. Thus God is sovereign and man is free.

http://pastoralmusings.com/2010/01/0...nist-approach/

I would add to " He chooses to create the world in which all circumstances and choices bring the most glory to His name" that not only does God create the world which brings the most glory to his name but also saves the most people possible.

Re: Omniscient God, or free will?

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Predicador (Post 890986)

Door number 3

God's foreknowledge of our choices does not predestine our choices

agreed and well put !

Re: Omniscient God, or free will?

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Predicador (Post 890986)

Door number 3

God's foreknowledge of our choices does not predestine our choices

Tidy and convenient. There are numerous instances in the Bible of God changing his mind based on human behavior. Why would such a thing be necessary if He knew the decisions beforehand?

Re: Omniscient God, or free will?

Rom 11:33-34
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?