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-   -   A thread just for Timmy: Person (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=29686)

Praxeas 04-24-2010 01:38 PM
A thread just for Timmy: Person
 
Timmy, I found this quote by Jason Dulle discussing "person", it's a little complex and intellectual, but you seem like a smart collie so I think you might get something out of it. WOOF!

The "nature-praying" theory will not work because it falsely assumes that Christ's human nature is a separate human person. There can be no equivocation of a nature and a person, however. A nature is the generic substance that is common to all men, being that which makes humanity what it is; a nature is a set of essential characteristics or properties which mark off what sort of thing an individual is. A person, however, is immaterial conscious substance, a personality; a person is a particular individual who consists of a certain nature, or the particularization of a generic substance. A person is the concrete conscious self, the ego, defining who it is who is of a particular substance.13 It takes a concrete person (hypostasis) to actualize the generic nature (physis).14 In the case of Christ, the person who actualizes the human nature is God, not a separate human person.
God came to exist as man by uniting human nature to His divine person, acquiring a human existence complete with all the properties inherent to human nature (human soul, spirit, mind, consciousness, etc.), not by assuming a human person. Because He assumed a human nature and not a human person Jesus' humanity is not an individual person in itself, but is human nature individualized (hypostasized) by the divine person.

http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/jesusprayers3.htm

Hoovie 04-24-2010 02:37 PM
Re: A thread just for Timmy: Person
 
First thought... Oh no No! Not another Timmy thread.

Second thought... I really like Dulle when it comes to Christology. Seems he can give a unique (not to mention better) OP approach to the subject. In the past so much of our theology has been reactionary. In an effort to show maximum separation from the Trinitarians, some have oversimplified "Modalism" while at the same time unfairly, and falsely accusing Trinitarians of having three Gods.

Thank you Jason Dulle for your contributions in you studies and presentations.

mizpeh 04-24-2010 02:38 PM
Re: A thread just for Timmy: Person
 
One of the problems, imo, with this definition is how then is Jesus truly human IF he did not assume a human person? Doesn't this explanation portray Jesus as not quite fully human? If Jesus did not "personalize" or "actualize" the generic human nature then what would there be? a human soul, spirit, and body, correct? Well, isn't that what we are according to 1 Thess 5:23? Wouldn't this necessarily then create a Nestorian Christ with two persons, one human and one divine?

Quote:
God came to exist as man by uniting human nature to His divine person, acquiring a human existence complete with all the properties inherent to human nature (human soul, spirit, mind, consciousness, etc.), not by assuming a human person. Because He assumed a human nature and not a human person Jesus' humanity is not an individual person in itself, but is human nature individualized (hypostasized) by the divine person.
According to the Hebrews 2:17, 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

and...
Quote:
Perhaps the best argument against Docetism came from Gregory of Nasiansuz who said “What is not assumed is not healed,” meaning if Christ did not become fully human (“what is assumed”) he could not truly save humanity (“is not healed”). Gregory of Nasiansuz was combating Apollinarianism at the time, but his words also hold true for Docetism and find support in 2 Cor. 5:21 and Heb. 4:12.

http://www.basictheology.com/definitions/Docetism/

Praxeas 04-24-2010 02:40 PM
Re: A thread just for Timmy: Person
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie (Post 902841)
First thought... Oh no No! Not another Timmy thread.

Second thought... I really like Dulle when it comes to Christology. Seems he can give a unique (not to mention better) OP approach to the subject. In the past so much of our theology has been reactionary. In an effort to show maximum separation from the Trinitarians, some have oversimplified "Modalism" while at the same time unfairly, and falsely accusing Trinitarians of having three Gods.

Thank you Jason Dulle for your contributions in you studies and presentations.
Yes I am convinced a lot of what we got was a reaction to Trinitarianism or maybe even being kicked out of the AOG. In fact early OPs like Urshan still used the word "Trinity". Eventually we had to disband all use of any language Trinitarians use, which does not make sense. A word is not automatically wrong because of who uses it

Praxeas 04-24-2010 02:42 PM
Re: A thread just for Timmy: Person
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 902842)
One of the problems, imo, with this definition is how then is Jesus truly human IF he did not assume a human person? Doesn't this explanation portray Jesus as not quite fully human? If Jesus did not "personalize" or "actualize" the generic human nature then what would there be? a human soul, spirit, and body, correct? Well, isn't that what we are according to 1 Thess 5:23? Wouldn't this necessarily then create a Nestorian Christ with two persons, one human and one divine?



According to the Hebrews 2:17, 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

and...
He is truly human because the Person of God, in the incarnation, has a complete human nature. IF fully human beings being a person that is Human (nature) then in Jason's theology the Son is exactly that. He is the Person of God with a human nature

notofworks 04-24-2010 02:47 PM
Re: A thread just for Timmy: Person
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie (Post 902841)
First thought... Oh no No! Not another Timmy thread.

Second thought... I really like Dulle when it comes to Christology. Seems he can give a unique (not to mention better) OP approach to the subject. In the past so much of our theology has been reactionary. In an effort to show maximum separation from the Trinitarians, some have oversimplified "Modalism" while at the same time unfairly, and falsely accusing Trinitarians of having three Gods.

Thank you Jason Dulle for your contributions in you studies and presentations.

Yes, but according to Prax, only smart people are able to understand him.:(

Praxeas 04-24-2010 02:51 PM
Re: A thread just for Timmy: Person
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notofworks (Post 902845)
Yes, but according to Prax, only smart people are able to understand him.:(
You understood it right?

notofworks 04-24-2010 02:55 PM
Re: A thread just for Timmy: Person
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 902846)
You understood it right?
Score one for Prax. That was a good comeback.:lol

But no, I actually didn't read it.

Praxeas 04-24-2010 02:59 PM
Re: A thread just for Timmy: Person
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notofworks (Post 902848)
Score one for Prax. That was a good comeback.:lol

But no, I actually didn't read it.
My intent wasn't to imply anyone was dumb, just that the content was a little more intellectually challenging than what we've discussed so far on the word person, with a little joke tossed on about Timmy and his avatar in the past :thumbsup

Timmy 04-24-2010 03:15 PM
Re: A thread just for Timmy: Person
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notofworks (Post 902848)
Score one for Prax. That was a good comeback.:lol

But no, I actually didn't read it.
:spit


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