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Pressing-On 03-30-2011 01:50 PM

Biggest find since Dead Sea Scrolls
 
Seventy metal books found in cave in Jordan could change our view of Biblical history

This ancient collection of 70 tiny books, their lead pages bound with wire, could unlock some of the secrets of the earliest days of Christianity.

On pages not much bigger than a credit card, are images, symbols and words that appear to refer to the Messiah and, possibly even, to the Crucifixion and Resurrection.

Adding to the intrigue, many of the books are sealed, prompting academics to speculate they are actually the lost collection of codices mentioned in the Bible’s Book Of Revelation.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/...71_634x432.jpg

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...l-history.html

Pressing-On 03-30-2011 02:02 PM

Re: Biggest find since Dead Sea Scrolls
 
Jordan vows to recover artefacts 'as important as Dead Sea Scrolls'

Jordan has vowed to use all means at its disposal to recover a set of artefacts allegedly smuggled into Israel that it believes could constitute the most important Christian texts ever found.

Jordan's quarrel is not with the Israeli government, but with Hassan Saeda, a Bedouin farmer in the Galilee, who has possession of the codices and is keeping them in hiding.

According to the Elkingtons, Mr Saeda received the artefacts from a Jordanian Bedouin who discovered them in a cave at some stage between 2005 and 2007, much in the same way the Dead Sea Scrolls were found 64 years ago.

A piece of leather found with the metal books was shown by carbon dating tests to be just under 2,000 years old, potentially placing its provenance within Christ's ministry, while a metallurgical examination on one of the codices found that it was also very old.

Israeli archaeological sources have been dismissive of the find, suggesting that Mr Saeda has appeared "every few years" trying to sell the codices. They said examinations had shown them to be forgeries.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...a-Scrolls.html

Pressing-On 03-30-2011 02:15 PM

Re: Biggest find since Dead Sea Scrolls
 
Jordan battles to regain 'priceless' Christian relics

A flash flood had exposed two niches inside the cave, one of them marked with a menorah or candlestick, the ancient Jewish religious symbol.

A Jordanian Bedouin opened these plugs, and what he found inside might constitute extremely rare relics of early Christianity.

If the relics are of early Christian origin rather than Jewish, then they are of huge significance.

"In the upper square [of one of the book covers] we have the seven-branch menorah, which Jews were utterly forbidden to represent because it resided in the holiest place in the Temple in the presence of God.

"So we have the coming of the messiah to approach the holy of holies, in other words to get legitimacy from God."

Location clues

Philip Davies, Emeritus Professor of Old Testament Studies at Sheffield University, says the most powerful evidence for a Christian origin lies in plates cast into a picture map of the holy city of Jerusalem.

"As soon as I saw that, I was dumbstruck. That struck me as so obviously a Christian image," he says.

"There is a cross in the foreground, ....

It is the cross that is the most telling feature, in the shape of a capital T, as the crosses used by Romans for crucifixion were.

Another potential link with the Bible is contained in one of the few fragments of text from the collection to have been translated.

It appears with the image of the menorah and reads "I shall walk uprightly", a sentence that also appears in the Book of Revelation.

But tests by metallurgists on the badly corroded lead suggest that the books were not made recently.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12888421

Pressing-On 03-30-2011 02:35 PM

Re: Biggest find since Dead Sea Scrolls
 
Initial metallurgical tests indicate that some of the books could date from the first century AD.

This estimate is based on the form of corrosion which has taken place, which experts believe would be impossible to achieve artificially.

http://www.archaeologydaily.com/news...a-Scrolls.html

Pressing-On 03-30-2011 02:56 PM

Re: Biggest find since Dead Sea Scrolls
 
Pretty interesting:

Biblical Scholars Weigh in on Discovery of Metal Plates

Just an update on my last post regarding the supposed discovery of a cache of ancient inscriptions written on metal plates. This find continues to generate interest and a number of biblical scholars, including Margaret Barker, Philip Davies, and Jim Davila, have expressed opinions on the matter, based on what information they’ve been able to get hold of.

http://www.heavenlyascents.com/2011/...-metal-plates/

mfblume 03-30-2011 03:28 PM

Re: Biggest find since Dead Sea Scrolls
 
"the lost collection of codices mentioned in the Bible’s Book Of Revelation."

Where in Revelation was this mentioned? :lol

Pressing-On 03-30-2011 03:37 PM

Re: Biggest find since Dead Sea Scrolls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1052278)
"the lost collection of codices mentioned in the Bible’s Book Of Revelation."

Where in Revelation was this mentioned? :lol

I was going to ask about that. I think this might be the answer do you think?
Quote:

The books appear to be “Kabbalah-related and the nature of the content indicates a magical incantation style of writing,” Mr Feather said. Before 400 CE, almost all ancient codices were made of parchment. The lead codices “predate any form of codex by several hundred years and this particular material was probably chosen to ensure permanency.”

http://networkedblogs.com/f2MwT
I initially started the thread because I wanted to follow the process on something like this.

For instance:
Quote:

Davila, who remains skeptical about the discovery, until better analyses come along, posted a preliminary list of nine different criteria that he feels need to be fulfilled before we can start to accept these plates as a true discovery of ancient inscriptions:


1. Publication in a scholarly journal of the metal analysis that shows the lead to be ancient.

2. Publication in a scholarly journal of the carbon-14 tests that show the associated leather to be ancient and of a comparable date to the lead.

Even if the antiquity of the materials is demonstrated, this proves nothing, since ancient materials are sometimes available on which to write fake inscriptions.

3. Publication of the location and details of the supposed discovery and analysis of the site by archaeologists.

4. Analysis of the patina of the script which demonstrates the writing to be ancient. If it is modern and unretouched, this will be obvious. If it has been retouched to seem ancient, this may or may not be detectable (see the controversy over the patina of the James Ossuary and the Jehoash inscription).

5. Full publication of all the texts with good photographs.

6. Analysis of the script by paleographers.

7. If things still look promising at this point, it will become worthwhile for philologists to take an interest and start trying to decipher the texts. So far, epigrapher Andre Lemaire has seen some of them and does not consider them genuine.

Inevitably, people will be now trying their hand at what is readable in the current photographs (if we assume they are from the same corpus). I don't have time to bother with this right now, but I would be interested in hearing what others come up with.

8. Analysis of the decorations by specialists in ancient iconography.

9. Publication of all of the above in peer-review journals and monographs

http://paleojudaica.blogspot.com/201...14540219100769

This case is still pending and I think we posted something about it here:
Quote:

The dry soil of the Middle East is rich in the relics of ancient civilisation. But experts do not want to be caught by elaborate forgeries. Last October a marathon five-year trial ended in Israel of two dealers accused of faking an inscription on an ossuary (stone coffin) to suggest that it might have once held the remains of James, the brother of Jesus Christ. The judge has still to announce a verdict and the 12,000 pages of conflicting evidence demonstrate how difficult it can be to determine what is genuine or not.

http://www.thejc.com/judaism/judaism...-mid-east-cave

mfblume 03-30-2011 03:40 PM

Re: Biggest find since Dead Sea Scrolls
 
Nothing in Revelation mentions anything about lost codices of books. But when it noted KABBALAH-related, that is Jewish mysticism and occult.

Pressing-On 03-30-2011 03:55 PM

Re: Biggest find since Dead Sea Scrolls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1052285)
Nothing in Revelation mentions anything about lost codices of books. But when it noted KABBALAH-related, that is Jewish mysticism and occult.

Yes, exactly.

And then Jim Davila, on PaleoJudaica, says, "This article is quite sensationalist and left me wondering how the content of the plates went from possibly being related to the Kabbalah to being about the death and resurrection of Jesus. Davila is probably correct to suggest that this is a “silly misunderstanding” of the journalist."

Pressing-On 03-30-2011 04:06 PM

Re: Biggest find since Dead Sea Scrolls
 
Well, this is confusing to me. They seem to defining "codice" as an "early book". So I'm getting confusing as to whether it is two conflicting stories about that or "the lost collection of codices mentioned in the Bible’s Book Of Revelation."


Quote:


His collection consists of more than 20 codices (early books)
, cast mostly in lead and containing cryptic messages in Hebrew and Greek along with symbols such as the menorah. In various places, the Hebrew letters appear to stand for Bar Kochba, leader of the second-century Judean revolt against the Romans; and the talmudic mystic Shimon bar Yochai, who hid from the Romans in a cave for 13 years.
http://www.thejc.com/judaism/judaism...-mid-east-cave


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