Official Stance of UPC?
 

Does anyone know the official stance of the upc concerning when salvation occurs? My understanding of the beliefs after the azuza outpouring in 1900 is that spirit baptism was a third work of grace with salvation by faith being the first work of grace and sanctification was the second work of Grace. Even though pentecostals never accepted the second work of grace and believed in the finished work doctrine. Can anyone explain how the 3 step salvation developed? Who was responsible? When did this change occur? Is there an apostolic organization that believes salvation at repentance?

Re: Official Stance of UPC?
 

can anyone explain why john 3:5, "born of the water" would not refer to water baptism?

Re: Official Stance of UPC?
 

people at asuza did not believe like the upci does today. they were not three steppers in the since.

i remember reading a article that contained a peice of newspaper quoting william seymore. He was addressing the gifts of the Spirit, and that he didnt want them to preach about the gifts of the Spirit First. Preach jesus get them saved.

i dont really want to read through the internet again to find it,

as for the doctrine itself when william Durham tried to preach it (finished work) he was barred from asuza by william seymore

Re: Official Stance of UPC?
 

is irrelevant to ones walk in Christ Jesus.

just sayin.

Re: Official Stance of UPC?
 

The UPC does not have an "official stance" but what we call the three-step plan of salvation (repentance, water baptism, and Spirit baptism) is believed by many and is often presented as the "official stance." This three-step plan of salvation should not be confused with another three separate experiences preached by some.

When the Holy Spirit was poured out in the late 1800's and early 1900's, those who received the experience were Christians seeking something more from God. Some were from "holiness" type churches and some were not. Those from "holiness" churches already believed in a post-salvation experience called "sanctification" or "the second blessing" so to them the Holy Ghost Baptism was a separate and subsequent experience --a third experience. The would testify. "I'm saved, sanctified, and filled with the Holy Ghost."

In the early 1900's a preacher named Durham from Chicago preached a message all over the place called "The Finished Work of Calvary." He taught that sanctification or holiness was not a separate experience from salvation but that when we got saved we were made holy and set apart for the Lord and we are to grow in that holiness/sanctification for the rest of our lives. Those from the "holiness" groups that did not accept the finished work doctrine still maintained that sanctification is a separate work and today they are the Church of God (Cleveland, TN), other Church of God groups which split off the Cleveland, TN group, Pentecostal Holiness, and Church of God in Christ. Those that preached the finished work doctrine later organized into what is now the Assemblies of God.

Around 1913 another teaching became popular which was called the new issue. This teaching said that the early church baptized using the name of Jesus (with or without the titles Lord and Christ) instead of the traditional baptism which was being used in just about every church or denomination in the world. Some taught that the name of the Father is Lord; the name of the Son is Jesus; and the name of the Holy Ghost is Christ so they proposed a triune name for a triune God and baptized that way. Others taught that the single name Jesus is the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Many people were re-baptized using these various formulas but re-baptism was not considered salvational --just a step back into the first century teaching of the Apostles.

Later, some began to teach that water baptism in Jesus' name (with or without the titles Lord and Christ) was necessary for salvation. Some began to teach that water baptism was the birth of water spoken of in John 3:5.

When the UPC was formed in 1945, two organizations came together and merged. One group, the PCI (Pentecostal Church Inc) was predominantly made up of ministers who believed that a person was saved prior to water and Spirit baptism. The other group, the PAJC (Pentecostal Assemblies of Jesus Christ) was predominantly made up of ministers that believed a person was not saved until completing the three steps of repentance, water baptism, and Spirit baptism. So that the two groups could merge a "fundamental doctrine" statement was written up that was ambiguous enough that both groups could agree with.

Since 1945 those who believe in a three-step plan of salvation have pretty well pushed out the one-steppers (or intimidated them into silence) so now many in the UPC preach and teach that a person is not saved until they have completed the three steps of repentance, water baptism, and Spirit baptism.

Re: Official Stance of UPC?
 

The belief that John 3:5 is water baptism is a doctrine taught by the Roman Catholic Church and is even found in a note in the Douay Bible at that Scripture. Some Protestant Churches teach that also.

Bro. S.G. Norris was the founder of the Apostolic Bible Institute in St. Paul, MN and many UPC ministers and officials were trained in his school. He published a chart or tract showing the apostasy of the church and its return to truth. In this chart he taught that the "Christian" denomination restored the truth to the Church that water baptism was necessary for salvation. Today some of us call those people Church of Christ or Campbellites that teach that water baptism is the birth of water and necessary for salvation.

Re: Official Stance of UPC?
 

I don't know of any Oneness organization that officially teaches that salvation happens prior to water baptism and Spirit baptism. There may be organizations that teach that but I personally am not acquainted with them.

How many ministers and Christians in the UPC, PAW, ALJC, CoJC, CoLJC, ETC believe salvation happens prior to and separate from water baptism and Spirit baptism? I personally have no idea. I think there are many who do but are afraid to admit it because of peer pressure or fear of being labeled a heretic or fear of losing political position.

Re: Official Stance of UPC?
 

thanks for your input sam. Does christianity without the cross deal with this issue? I'm about to read it.

Re: Official Stance of UPC?
 

I am pretty sure Global network does as well as the Canadian ACOP.

From http://www.acop.ca/

Amongst statement of faith we read:

5. That forgiveness of sin and eternal life is freely offered to all by our Lord
Jesus Christ. Salvation of sinners is by grace through faith alone, in the
perfect all sufficient work of Christ, who died for our sins, was buried and
rose again the third day for our justification.

6. In Water Baptism of believers by immersion in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

7. In the Baptism with the Holy Spirit as an experience subsequent to salvation with the scriptural evidence; namely, speaking in tongues.

Re: Official Stance of UPC?
 

we need churches like that here in america,