Glorying In Sin
 

It seems that among the AFF crowd here (and those with AFF roots who post primarly on FB) that there is almost a glorying in sin. A glorying in NOT being perfect and being at least a little worldly. These people tend to come across as condenscending towards those who seek to be seperated from the world.

Now listen, I'm not claiming to be perfect, in fact if I say that I have no sin, I make God a liar. I do sin, but I hate it. I don't just say "well nobodies perfect" or "don't judge me just because I sin differently than you", i.e. don't talk about my sin and I won't talk about yours. But my prayer is that God would continue the work of sanctification in my life, to open my eyes to my sin so that I recognize it, repent of it, and discontinue it. I want to live holy. Not just more good than bad, or know enough to be saved and then partake in things that are not beneficial because I am versed in the doctrines of grace. I pray that God will help me to live a life completely (not mostly) pleasing to Him. But I confess to sometimes feeling in the minority, and it can be slightly discouraging at times.

Why don't we care about true holiness anymore? Because many were hoodwinked and abused by authoratarian preachers who overstepped their biblical bounds and used the doctrine of seperation as a rod to beat the sheep? I'm the first to admit that many standards don't have solid (if any) biblical support, especially in the way they are presented (as laws, not principles). I'm the first to admit that most teaching on standards crosses the line and becomes legalism and salvation by works. I believe tha Pauls word in the latter half of Colossians 2 and latter part of 1 Timothy 1 apply to those who confidently assert what they do not know, desiring to be teachers of the law, and in doing so teach things which have the appearence of holiness in man made religion and denying the flesh, but also that the same things are powerless to actually change the heart. HOWEVER..........

The doctrine of seperation from the world is extremely Biblical. In several epistles Paul exhorts the believers to live a life worthy of the Lord. To live a life of defined by godliness. That if anyone desnt teach accordingly he "knows nothing." James says true religion is amongst other things to "keep oneself unspotted from the world" and John reminds us, though well known, it is widey disregarded, "love not the world, neither the things that are in the world" and yet it seems like Christians (especially former apostolics) glory in their freedom to cuss, to entertain themselves with all manner of worldly material, whether movies, music, leisure.

I don't get it. I realize I'm on the opposite track as some of these people, because all their childhood (and even into adulthood) they didn't watch tv, didn't listen to secular music, didn't experience the world, and now that their eyes have been opened to "grace" they "are free to do all these things" (ref. Jeremiah 7). But that's not biblical grace! Biblical grace that bring salvation teaches us to DENY ungodliness and worldy lusts (see Titus 2:11-14), not indulge in these thing, even in "moderation." I wasn't raised in church, my whole life was consumed with worldliness, I lived in most of the sins listed in the NT (Romans 1:28-32, 1 Cor 6:9-10, Col 3 :5-8, 1 John 2:15, etc) and I can not for the life of me understand what any christian would want to do with the world. What does the world offer you? What do you find so attractive? What do you think you will find? I'll tell you, you'l never find it. Those who think they have liberty could find one day their liberty carried them to far. In excercising their "freedom" they end up in bondage. But will most of them hear? No. Instead people who speak up for holiness and separation are met with shouts of "legalist", "weaker brother", etc.

Anyway, I'm done with my rant, just sayin, I don't understand why so many seem so eager to immerse themselves in this godless culture. ~Jason

Re: Glorying In Sin
 

Good topic. People have heard holiness slammed for so long they have no strength left to oppose this. They have accepted the Protestant Evangelical perversions concerning grace and the teaching of being "in him".

Also please understand that the Protestant version of 1 John 1:8 has caused even people who are living free from sin to think they have to confess they have sin even if they dont. The right understanding of it agrees with all the rest of Johns writings and changes everything. It leaves us no exuse to fall short of the only standard Yeshua has given his disciples.

Be you therefore perfect even as the Father in Heaven is perfect. Matt. 5:48

Re: Glorying In Sin
 

Holiness slammed? You mean standards?

Re: Glorying In Sin
 

To me holiness has NEVER meant "standards" as in must shave or never trim. Holiness is separation to the person and will of Yeshua.

Re: Glorying In Sin
 

So can someone give me an example of holiness being slammed here?

Re: Glorying In Sin
 

Any teaching that says the saints need not be perfect is slamming holiness imo.

We shall see what Jason means when he returns. I have noticed what he is talking about many times over.

Re: Glorying In Sin
 

Can you give us an example of a thread where godliness is exalted without someone coming on and labeling it legalism?

Re: Glorying In Sin
 

:highfive

Re: Glorying In Sin
 

Good topic! I understand the self loathing at our weekness..I know all to well in my own life, the short comings, the times of anger, saying things I know are not conducive to a Christian etc.

I long to be right and do right, every day, and it does get frustrating when I fall, we all are usually far more educated then obedient.

For those who have been abused, it is VERY difficult to separate the good and right from the wrong, seeing as how the two grew together...sometimes in trying to pull the bad off the good...some of the good gets ripped out as well. For example, Holiness, and Godliness are Biblical and right...same with separation from the world. When a person is taught these things in principle...that is well and right. when there arer hard fast laws made off the principle and then in turn used to beat down a person..that is wrong.

I have been on both sides of the fence...and while I totally understand the error of many modern day preachers when they attemp to teach Grace...there is the other side of the coin that refuses to teach or expound the maifold graces of God and His total willingness to love and forgive us if we confess and repent. Once again, the good and the bad.

In my opinion we need good doctrine...we also need the Spirit...and the glue that seems to hold these two together is love...and from what I have observed, love is an ever decreasing element in many churches...regardless of being strict or liberal. All to often we are not willing to bear one anothers burdens and really be tender hearted toward one another.

Love covers a multitude of sins...so what happens when love diminishes? Seems pretty easy to figure out. Maybe I am crazy, but if we would focus on Jesus...love Him, and love each other the way we are supposed to...maybe many of these agendas on both sides would simply disolve...we would ask Him waht He thinks instead of proclaiming what we think....

Re: Glorying In Sin
 

Jesus said that if we love Him, we will keep His commandments. This is repeated by John in his first epistle. Love is not in word, but in deed. Holiness is a byproduct of repentance, and repentance is turning from sin and unto the Lord. James teaches us that as we draw near to God, He draws near to us. We can say all we want that we love Jesus and the brethren, but until we understand what 1John 5:2-3 actually says, we do not understand the love of God or how to love our brothers.