Apostolic Friends Forum - Indwelling or Empowerment

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Indwelling or Empowerment

Indwelling or Empowerment

How many on here believe in two blessings?
And where is any scripture to prove it.?
Where is scripture that proves that when a person accepts Jesus as Lord, they are automatically filled with the Holy Ghost, without any evidence?
And later, they are baptized with the Holy Ghost, for power only, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues? But this is not for Salvation?

You will notice when I put doctrine on here, I do so with 2 or more scripture’s. “With two witness’s let every word be established."

The Apostles didn't teach two (2) infillings or baptisms. They also did not teach the initial evidence doctrine.

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Re: Indwelling or Empowerment

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Originally Posted by houston (Post 1201143)

The Apostles didn't teach two (2) infillings or baptisms. They also did not teach the initial evidence doctrine.

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houston---What is your opinion of what they taught?

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Originally Posted by renee819 (Post 1201144)

houston---What is your opinion of what they taught?

My opinion is that we will not know until we get there.

I have read in a thread somewhere on this forum that the evidence of receiving the Ruach in the O.T. was prophecy. From what I renember, it was convincing.

In the N.T. they prophesied and/or spoke in tongues. All we have are examples. There is not a, como se dice, not a... systematic something and what not.

Re: Indwelling or Empowerment

Quote:

Originally Posted by renee819 (Post 1201140)

Obviously what you are describing is Evangelical Protestant doctrine. Many Apostolic "Oneness" are falling for it.

Phillip and the Apostles KNEW the Samaritans had NOT received the Holy Ghost. The Protestant Cults cannot answer how they knew this. There must have been a way to know.

Re: Indwelling or Empowerment

According to God’s Word, you must be born of the water and the Spirit, to be saved.
The Spirit is the Holy Ghost, and comes from God.
You must have the Holy Ghost to be saved.

So far, all denominations believe those truths. The catch is, when does the Holy Ghost come into a person, to accomplish the re-birth?

Some believe, as soon as they say the Sinners prayer–(which is not Biblical, if it is some written or repeated prayer) or they believe that Jesus is the Son of God, they are saved and the Holy Ghost automatically comes in. This is Baptist belief, and comes from Augustine, Luther and Calvin. (I wouldn’t put any stock in Calvin and Luther at all—they were both murders, martyring or causing the martyrs of true Christians.

Show me scriptures, that the holy Ghost come in automatically as soon as someone repents.

In the Old Testament, The Holy Ghost moved ON the Prophets, as the prophesied, wrote the OT, or preformed miracles. It moved ON THEM, but could not dwell IN them. Because it was not yet given.

Jesus came and died in order to send the Holy Ghost down, which He did at Pentecost.

Quote:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you

However, the Holy Ghost as we know it today, that Jesus sent down at Pentecost, could not come until after Jesus was glorified.

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John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

The Holy Ghost was in the world, because that the Holy Ghost is the Spirit of God and is everywhere. But no one received the Holy Ghost—(to dwell in them, until in the Form that has been available, ever since Pentecost), until Jesus sent it down.

Are there two Holy Ghost’s? One that you receive when you repent? And another you can receive but not necessary, later? Are you going to be a REAL Christian, without the Power of God, the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth, Holy Ghost in your life?

Just as it was in the OT, when Jesus came, the Holy Ghost moved on the Apostles, on the 70 that Jesus sent out, but it did not dwell in them.

Quote:

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you

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Who was it that dwelled with them?------Jesus
How was Jesus to be within them? ------by His Spirit. There is only One Spirit.

TO BE CONTINUED

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Re: Indwelling or Empowerment

Is it necessary to receive the Holy Ghost, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues to be saved?

YES----proof?

We all know that Jesus said that we must be ‘born again’ of the water and the Spirit. That Spirit is the Holy Ghost. When we are born again of the water, we are baptized in the water–in Jesus name.
When we are born of the Spirit, we are baptized by the Spirit, which is "Jesus in you the hope of glory" The Holy Ghost.

When Jesus was here bodily, He spoke in parables, but on His last day on earth, He opened up the Apostles eyes, to the real purpose that He came. Also telling them to stay in Jerusalem until the Holy Ghost came, that he would send down, and that the First Gospel message would be preached at Pentecost.

Quote:

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures

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(Until then, the Apostles thought that Jesus came to set up an earthly Kingdom)

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46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high

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3 steps
1. Repentance
2. Remission of sins—which Peter explained (because Jesus had given him the Keys (understanding) that remission is only accomplished by being baptized in Jesus name.
3. Receive the Holy Ghost.

This is the only Plan of Salvation taught by the Word and example, in the Bible. And it was to start at Pentecost.

The so-called 4 Gospels, is not the Gospel, John and Jesus constantly taught, “The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.” Meaning, the invisible Kingdom of the Spirit—which started at Pentecost.
The Letters to the churches, from Romans to Revelations, was written to saved people, and the PLAN of Salvation–the Gospel is not found in the Letters.
The book of Acts is the Only PLAN of Salvation, by Word and example.

SO WHAT HAPPENED?

Luke repeats what Jesus told them, just before he went away, in Acts.

Quote:

Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence

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Now if the Apostles already had the Holy Ghost, why did Jesus tell them to wait for the baptism of the Holy Ghost? For one thing, the Holy Ghost had not yet been given, until Jesus sent it down.

Quote:

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth

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Now some will argue, that UPON, is not the same as BAPTIZED. But look at the verse above.

“ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”
“ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you”

When you are baptized with water, the water was upon them, around them, all over them
When you receive the Holy Ghost, it is upon you, around you as well as IN you.

What happened/

Quote:

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance

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They were all FILLED. Same as baptized, not just upon them. Not just the 12, but ALL, meaning all 120. They spoke with other tongues–foreign tongues, and the nationalities gathered for Pentecost, understood what they were saying as they praised God.

Then Peter stood up and explained what was happening, in a language that they all understood, (probably Aramaic) The message brought conviction to those devout Jews watching, and they asked, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” Do? To be saved.

Then Peter told them the Plan of Salvation, the only way to be saved then as well as now. God didn’t go thru all of that, to later change His mind about salvation. And forget to tell us human’s.

Quote:

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

The PLAN is plain and simple. But man has corrupted the PLAN, by adding 3,800 Denominations with their OWN interpretation, instead of adhering to the foundation.
(Just as when esus came the first time, the Priests had ADDED so many Laws to the Law of Moses, that no one could live by them).

THE FOUNDATION

1. Repent
2. Be baptized in Jesus name, for the remission of sins. Paul said, “to was your sins away.”
3. Receive the Holy Ghost. When you receive the Holy Ghost, you are “indwelt and empowered” by the Holy Ghost.

TO BE CONTINUED

Re: Indwelling or Empowerment

Examples of the PLAN

Quote:

Acts 8:5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did

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(When you preach Christ, it is, Repent, be Baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost.)

Did they receive the Holy Ghost as soon as they believed?

Quote:

Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost

These people, had repented.
How were they baptized? In the name of the Lord Jesus.
When did they receive the Holy Ghost? When Peter and John came and prayed for them.

How did Phillip, Peter and John KNOW, that they had not received the Holy Ghost, since they had believed? They didn’t speak in other tongues. They didn't have the evidence.

It doesn’t say. However, since there was only One Gospel, that Peter had already preached. And Peter came down to pray for them to receive the Holy Ghost, and then he and others, as well as Simon the sorcerer, knew as well, and offered money for the power that he thought that Peter had, there was the same evidence as Pentecost. The same 3 Steps.

What about Cornelius? He was a good man a Godly man, but he was not saved. God sent Peter to tell him how to be saved. Again, we find the 3 steps. In a different order, but no matter, the 3 steps is all ONE PLAN, and one won’t save you without the other.

How did the Apostles know that Cornelius household had received the Holy Ghost?

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Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter,
because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days

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The Holy Ghost fell UPON them, they were filled, they received, they were baptized, it is all the same thing.

What is the purpose of the Holy Ghost? The most important is it is being baptized to Spiritual Life. Without it, people have Religion, but no LIFE.

Quote:

Acts 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life

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What was the purpose?-----“whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.”
What was the result?--------“Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.”

TO BE CONTINUED

Re: Indwelling or Empowerment

TO CONTINUE.

And then the Ephesians. The first step had already been taken.

Quote:

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him,
We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost

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(To you the believe, they receive as soon as they believe, why didn’t these receive the Holy Ghost automatically, as soon as they believed?)

Quote:

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied

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These were Believers, that Apollos had taught about Jesus, but only knew of John’s baptism, they had been baptized wrong and had to be baptized over. Also evidently Apollos didn’t know abot the Holy Ghost, that is why Priscilla and Aquilla tool him aside, and taught him the whole gospel.

There are millions of Believers, that have been taught falsely, that they received the Holy Ghost as soon as they believed, also baptized in the Catholic Trinity baptism. I fear for their souls.

Why would anyone that claims to follow Jesus, refuse to be baptized in His name.
Why would anyone believe a preacher that preaches, that as soon as you believe you are filled with the Holy Ghost? When there is not one scripture to that effect. Neither examples in the Word. But many scriptures that reveal the Truth, as well as examples of people being saved.

Show me an example of someone being saved, and it tells us, “as soon as they believed they received the Holy Ghost automatically.” And now if they want power they can receive another Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues.”

What they are teaching is ANOTHER GOSPEL.

Quote:

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed

Re: Indwelling or Empowerment

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1201240)

Amen Mike, I was saddened almost to tears, when I came on this Forum and saw how far Pentecost has fallen. Of course, probably not everyone on here are Apostolic.

Looks like we have been infitrated by the Baptist, and Trinitarians. and many have compromised.
I told my grandson, (that is far away from God) this morning. We have got to know what we believe and stand on those principles, no matter what comes or goes.