Guns: An Important Discussion
 

Ok I like guns. I could almost say I love guns. I have owned AK47'S, SKS'S Mini 14, Mini 30 and M1 Carbine along with some handguns. I currently own one handgun.

I understand that Jesus is not opposed to being armed at least generally speaking. What is hard to find in the New Covenant Church is Christians killing their enemies. How do you feel about this? Scripture supporting it? Scripture against it?

Re: Guns: An Important Discussion
 

I'd sure like to know the answer to this, also.

Re: Guns: An Important Discussion
 

Since you asked for scripture and not my viewpoint..lol

Matt 5

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic,[h] let him have your cloak as well. 41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

Love Your Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers,[i] what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect

Re: Guns: An Important Discussion
 

If someone is trying to kill or harm you or your family, defend them.

Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed. 22 "But when someone stronger than he attacks him and overpowers him, he takes away from him all his armor on which he had relied and distributes his plunder.

Re: Guns: An Important Discussion
 

Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out!

Re: Guns: An Important Discussion
 

Luk 22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
Luk 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Luk 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
Luk 22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.



Joh 18:33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?
Joh 18:34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?
Joh 18:35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.



It's clear the gospel is NOT to be advanced by the sword. If Christ's kingdom was of this world we would "fight" but it is not. Therefore the gospel is a true message of peace and good will towards men - all mankind.

However, the question is not one of gospel propagation it is "self defense". On this the Bible is clear:
It is interesting to note that Abraham (the father of the "faithful" - the man of faith) brought his "trained servants" with him to rescue Lot.
Gen 14:14 And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.

Then there is this passage of scripture letting us know that we can defend our property from thieves:
Exo 22:2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.

A man breaking into a house to steal would be smitten and the owner of the house would suffer no adverse consequences.

Then there is this passage as well:
1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

What does "provision" mean?
Certainly it the taking thought for the "needs" of the family. A man should work to provide for his family.
2Th 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

What does this have to do with the issue at hand? I am glad you asked! LOL!
What man among us would not step in and defend our families from a rabid dog? What man among us would not defend our families from any wild creature seeking to do them harm. I would use anything I could get my hands on to defend them from such an attack.

Jesus said:
Mat 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
Mat 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

In the above passage Jesus states that it is right to do good even on the Sabbath day. Here we have the clear statement that humanity is better than the animal kingdom - this is because of our being created in the image of God not because of any other type of inherent worth.

When our families or ourselves are found in the proverbial "ditch" among thieves and robbers it is good to "provide" for their defense whether those thieves and robbers are wild animals or men acting like wild animals. We are commanded to "provide" for our families and there is no doubt in my mind that this includes "protection".

Jesus told the Disciples to go and get a sword, not for the propagation of the gospel but for self defense. These were not letter openers. The highways were dangerous and they would be travelling these. More often than not the robbers look for easy prey and when they see armed men they wait for the unarmed. Interesting that today it is in the "gun free" zones where the mass killings take place. There is nothing new under the sun.

In summary, we are not to propagate the gospel with the sword. However, we are to provide for our families. That includes protecting them from harm. I cannot imagine any man standing idly by watching a venomous animal of a man raping his wife or daughter and doing nothing. It goes against every fiber of what a "man" is supposed to be. All that evil needs to prosper is for good people to do nothing.

Re: Guns: An Important Discussion
 

Pliny, good post. You posted my thoughts exactly (only much better). Church and family are two very different things.

We are NOT to say "Repent or die!" but we ARE allowed to say "Touch my wife, harm my children, or steal my things and feel the cold kiss of my Ruger 9mm!".

Re: Guns: An Important Discussion
 

I agree, good post.

I know there are other threads about the end times, but here is very interesting passage concerning God's witnesses during the time of the end:

Revelation 11:3-6
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Although they are not evangelizing with the end of a sword, they don't appear to be helpless in the face of adversity. They are more like Stand Your Ground Witnesses.

Re: Guns: An Important Discussion
 

As a Christian I have no right to take another human life under any circumstances whatsoever. I feel very very strongly about this.

Re: Guns: An Important Discussion
 

So you would allow your wife/girlfriend to be molested by another without taking whatever step was necessary? Just askin.