Apostolic Friends Forum - Discrepancies in Paul's Message

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Discrepancies in Paul's Message

Acts 17:
23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, To The Unknown God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

in acts paul says pagans worship ignorantly, in romans pagans are without an excuse.

Acts 17:
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Romans 1:
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

in acts God winks at pagan ignorance, in Romans God judges pagan idolatry.

which is it bible inerrancy folks, acts 17 or romans 1?

Re: Discrepancies in Paul's Message

It does not say that.

THEN---And the times of this ignorance God winked at;

NOW---
but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

NOW is the time of Roman 1.

Re: Discrepancies in Paul's Message

[QUOTE=Dedicated Mind;1258844]Acts 17:
23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, To The Unknown God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

in acts paul says pagans worship ignorantly, in romans pagans are without an excuse.

Acts 17:
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Romans 1:
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

in acts God winks at pagan ignorance, in Romans God judges pagan idolatry.

which is it bible inerrancy folks, acts 17 or romans 1?[/QUOT

NEITHER!

You have to know, who Paul is talking to.

In Acts 17, he is talking to Pagans.

In Romans 1, he is talking to BACKSLIDERS.

Quote:

Romans 1:18 (KJV)
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness

;

“men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;” Men that know the TRUTH, and yet live in unrighteousness.”

Quote:

Romans 1:19 (KJV)
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

What is known of God---was manifest in them. (I take that as even the Holy Ghost was manifest in them.)
God has shown them.
“even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: “

Quote:

Romans 1:21 (KJV)
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened

.

These are backsliders.

Re: Discrepancies in Paul's Message

renee, are you talking about christian backsliders or judaism backsliders? paul mentions idol worshippers in romans 1

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Re: Discrepancies in Paul's Message

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind (Post 1258857)

Cristian backsliders. Romans is written to the Christian churches in Rome. So it could be to Gentiles as well as Jews.

Re: Discrepancies in Paul's Message

Quote:

Originally Posted by renee819 (Post 1258931)

Cristian backsliders. Romans is written to the Christian churches in Rome. So it could be to Gentiles as well as Jews.

renee, this is a very misguided claim. scholars date the book of romans to the 50's AD.

Quote:

The majority of scholars writing on Romans propose the letter was written in late 55/early 56 or late 56/early 57.[10] Early 58 and early 55 both have some support, while German New Testament scholar Gerd Lüdemann argues for a date as early as 51/52 (or 54/55) following on from Knox who proposed 53/54. Lüdemann is the only serious challenge to the consensus of mid to late 50s.

romans 1 cannot refer to christian backsliders. they were either judaism backsliders or pagans who never acknowledge the truth of god, in which case it would contradict acts 17. you need a better explanation to defend biblical inerrancy.

Re: Discrepancies in Paul's Message

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind (Post 1258935)

renee, this is a very misguided claim. scholars date the book of romans to the 50's AD.

romans 1 cannot refer to christian backsliders. they were either judaism backsliders or pagans who never acknowledge the truth of god, in which case it would contradict acts 17. you need a better explanation to defend biblical inerrancy.

Please explain how the date being the 50s proves it can't refer to Christian backsliders.

How does that contradict acts 17? I don't see your point

Re: Discrepancies in Paul's Message

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 1258943)

Please explain how the date being the 50s proves it can't refer to Christian backsliders.

How does that contradict acts 17? I don't see your point

if romans 1 was written in the 50's ad that is only 20 years after christ. they would not have time to become idol worshippers, given over to homosexuality and lesbianism. the process of rejection of truth, corruption and judgement takes more than 20 years. he is obviously referring to pagan idolaters who have become corrupt and judged in which case if you read the first post you will see the contradiction with acts 17.

Re: Discrepancies in Paul's Message

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind (Post 1258999)

if romans 1 was written in the 50's ad that is only 20 years after christ. they would not have time to become idol worshippers, given over to homosexuality and lesbianism. the process of rejection of truth, corruption and judgement takes more than 20 years. he is obviously referring to pagan idolaters who have become corrupt and judged in which case if you read the first post you will see the contradiction with acts 17.

Really? Thats strange since I have been in church 19 years and have seen MANY come to Christ, get saved, then backslide in to sin some of whom did indeed get into homosexuality. I guess they don't operate on your timetable.

Re: Discrepancies in Paul's Message

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind (Post 1258999)

if romans 1 was written in the 50's ad that is only 20 years after christ. they would not have time to become idol worshippers, given over to homosexuality and lesbianism.

Why not? How much time does one need?

BTW Rom 1 didn't say the Romans were guilty of this

Quote:

the process of rejection of truth, corruption and judgement takes more than 20 years.

Says who?

Quote:

he is obviously referring to pagan idolaters who have become corrupt and judged in which case if you read the first post you will see the contradiction with acts 17.

I don't see the contradiction. He didn't say "are judged" but will be judged as all will be (future judgement seat).

You seem to believe God "winking" means it was OK to do, that's the problem you are basing your idea on a faulty interpretation.

What this is saying is in the past God only offered the way of salvation to One Nation (Israel) but not calls ALL to repentance

Act 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,
Act 17:31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead."

NET 109 sn He now commands all people everywhere to repent. God was now asking all mankind to turn to him. No nation or race was excluded.