Apostolic Friends Forum - Do unbelievers belong in the assembly?

Apostolic Friends Forum (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/index.php)

- Fellowship Hall (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7)

- - Do unbelievers belong in the assembly? (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=45140)

Do unbelievers belong in the assembly?

http://cnview.com/text_sermons/unbel..._in_assemb.htm

Please read the article and tell me your thoughts. The question is 'Do unbelievers belong in the assembly?'

Here's a few quotes from the article, but please read the whole thing.

Quote:

1 Cor 5:6-7 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

This is what Paul is talking about here.

1 Cor 5:1-2 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

The logic that the church has been using for decades is that, "We need to bring the unsaved in, to hear the Gospel." But in church is not where they are to hear the gospel. The Gospel needs to be taken to them.

It is alright to talk with the unsaved in your place of work or wherever you may come in contact with them, but they do not belong in an assembly of believers that meet together to worship God and exhort each other.

...

Until the lost are saved, they don't belong in the assembly! In the O.T. God's direction was absolutely dclear about keeping the profane out of God's presence. And they had the gatekeepers so that the unclean could not go in.

2 Chr 23:19 And he set the porters at the gates of the house of the LORD, that none which was unclean in any thing should enter in.

Preachers need to be "sent" to the lost, to bring (take) the gospel to them.

The Gospel must be taken to the lost, going to the highways and hedges to compel them to come, so that God's house may be filled. (Luke14:23) That means, going to where the lost are with God's WORD.

...

These modern church people always say, well, look at Jesus. He ate with publicans and sinners. And the Pharisees complained to Him, just like you complain to us.

But notice WHERE Jesus ministered to people. When he was eating with tax collectors and sinners, He has just asked Levi to follow Him. And He was in Levi's house. (Mark2: 14-15) When He spoke with the woman of Samaria it was necessary for Him to go to Samaria. (John 4:4) He sat in fishing boats to teach. (Matt13: 2) And He often went into the wilderness, where the crowds came to Him. (Mattt14: 13) When He called to Zaccheus, He said, "I'm coming to your house". (Luke19: 5)

JESUS WENT TO THE PEOPLE or THE PEOPLE CAME TO HIM, OUTSIDE OF THE TEMPLE.

But when it came to the temple, the place that represented God's Holy presence, you can notice that He drives the filth out. The merchants and money-changers and swindlers (Matt 21:12-13) because it was a "house of prayer".

Also, a typical argument is that since our bodies are the temple of the Lord (1Cor 6:19), the physical building (or location) no longer matters. And, to a certain extent, this is true. Jesus said:

Matt 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Where Christians are gathered for worship, exhortation, study, prayer, and whether it's a living room, garage or barn or the fancy building with the sign out front--that gathering represents the Lord's presence. It is a special time of fellowship with the Lord that the unregenerate have no part in. When Paul writes to Timothy about the workings of the Church gatherings, he has this to say about prayer:

1 Tim 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

Now if the unregenerate are in the assembly imitating what they see, the hands they lift are not holy, are they?

Re: Do unbelievers belong in the assembly?

In my opinion(which changes all the time), in modern day society, this would seem to make it much harder to bring others to Christ. Most people aren't very interested in talking about God when they are grocery shopping, neither are they going to visit a stranger's house to talk about Jesus.

Everyone in America has heard of Jesus, but to come to an assembly where they can feel the presense of God, possibly see healings, and worship with others, makes a big difference.

"I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance." Luke 15:7

Re: Do unbelievers belong in the assembly?

Before I read the article...the assembly is technically the church. The church is the body of Christ...so unless someone is a believer and born again they cannot be part of the assembly. That said, an unbeliever can assemble with the assembly and not be part of the assembly.

now to read the article.

Re: Do unbelievers belong in the assembly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 1288835)

I haven't read it either, but it probably says we should be stoned. (Double entendre unintended. :heeheehee)

Re: Do unbelievers belong in the assembly?

I believe that sinners should be welcome to most assemblies. Especially those aimed at reaching them. However, I also believe that some assemblies should be geared towards the saints in particular. Sinners wouldn't do well in these assemblies because much that would be discussed wouldn't apply to them... and might even be alien to them or over their heads.

Re: Do unbelievers belong in the assembly?

Also, it's my conviction that the Epistles give examples of how the early church was managed. I don't believe everything written to every church should be applied universally in a legalistic manner.

Re: Do unbelievers belong in the assembly?

First off, the problem Paul was addressing in 1 Cor 5 was believers commiting fornication.
And, he ended by admonishing them to:

1 Cor 5
9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;
10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.
11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
13 But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.

The "wicked" man that was to be removed from the assembly was a believer (at least a professed believer)

Secondly,

1 Cor 14
23 Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all;
25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

Pretty clear!

Re: Do unbelievers belong in the assembly?

Not all unbelievers are wicked. Wicked people are unbelievers. Get definitions straight be discoursing.

Re: Do unbelievers belong in the assembly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGBTG (Post 1288855)

Notice, though, that Paul speaks of the unbelievers as 'outside'. them that are 'outside'. The wicked one who claimed to be a believer was placed in their category, that is he was expelled and not allowed in unless he repented.

Jesus said if a brother will not hear the church, let him be as 'an heathen and publican', with the implication he is placed outside the assembly, is shunned, not admitted, except upon condition of sincere repentance. Again, this all indicates that unbelievers seem to be not generally admitted to the assembly.

Quote:

Secondly,

1 Cor 14
23 Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all;
25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

Pretty clear!

Yes, there is clearly a declaration made that an unbeliever or 'unlearned' person may enter the assembly. But that's an *if* not a *when*. It may be that an unbeliever enters the assembly, but Paul's statement seems to indicate such would be the exception, not the rule. And like they say, 'the exception proves the rule'.

Not saying I am convinced either way, I am still trying to figure this one out, btw.

Re: Do unbelievers belong in the assembly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tv1a (Post 1288858)

Not all unbelievers are wicked. Wicked people are unbelievers. Get definitions straight be discoursing.

Are unbelievers in their sins? Are they still sinning? Are they sinners?

If so, then they are by definition 'wicked'. The wicked believer expelled in Corinthians was a believer who was sinning. Are sinners sinning? Do they sin?

Anyway, if the bible indicates the lost are 'saved' by Christians 'going forth' with the gospel, then why do we reverse that and establish a pattern where the lost 'come to church to hopefully get 'em saved'?