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Pressing-On 04-03-2014 12:53 PM

Republicans rolling out alternatives to OCare
 
Alternatives being proposed, thus far, by Republicans Dr. Ben Carson and Gov. Bobby Jindal.

Will post additional links when other possible 2016 presidential candidates put out their plans.

Quote:

Ben Carson releases principles for Obamacare replacement
  • Our health is the most personal and important thing we possess, therefore its care must be under our control.
  • Centralization and bureaucracy are the antithesis of personalization, and only discourage choice and innovation.
  • Large-scale change should not be imposed from above. Instead, we must have the freedom to choose what is best for our families and build on proven successes.
  • Advancing technology and innovation can reduce costs and increase efficiency but every individual must always own and control their personal medical information.
  • States should have maximum flexibility to design the programs that serve their citizens.
  • Employers and individuals purchasing health insurance must always be free to buy coverage and benefits consistent with their moral and religious beliefs.
  • Physicians are the backbone of our healthcare system and deserve to practice in an environment free of unnecessary, frivolous and costly lawsuits.

Carson is scheduled to meet with the lawmakers of the Congressional Health Caucus on Thursday to discuss health care.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/04/03/be...e-replacement/
Gov. Jindal holds back on some of the details, which Republican economist, Douglas Holtz-Eakin says makes good election sense.

Quote:

Bobby Jindal’s Blueprint for Health Care Reform

Among the reforms, Jindal proposes:
  • Changing the tax code to give all individuals the same standard deduction for health insurance;
  • Creating a grant pool of $100 billion over 10 years that would allow states to create insurance exchanges with greater flexibility than the ones available through Obamacare;
  • Guaranteeing people with pre-existing conditions access to the new state exchanges;
  • Strengthening conscience protections for businesses and medical providers as well as restricting federal funding of abortions;
  • Introducing a premium support system into Medicare, the federal health program for seniors and the disabled; and
  • Allowing Americans to buy insurance across state lines.

http://blog.heritage.org/2014/04/02/..._medium=social

Aquila 04-03-2014 01:03 PM

Re: Republicans rolling out alternatives to OCare
 
Eh, I'm for a single payer system. I don't believe businesses should be saddled with the responsibility to provide health insurance at all. Most countries who have taken on the notion of universally insuring it's citizens has shifted into a form of single payer. There's no easy answer and each plan has it's problems. But this is my opinion.

Here's an interesting article:
The Conservative Case for Single-Payer Health Care
http://hurryupharry.org/2012/06/16/t...r-health-care/

Guest Post, June 16th 2012, 6:08 pm


Guest post by Andrew Murphy


On the surface, the title of this article seems paradoxical. How can any conservative in the USA even contemplate the concept of the government creating a single-payer health insurance system covering all Americans and, in effect, ending private major medical health insurance?

In this post I hope to make the conservative case for a single payer incontrovertible for those occupying the centre-right politically.

Conservatives are supposed to be the defenders of business. Yet our current health care system works as an albatross around the neck of American business. Likewise, the piecemeal reforms of ObamaCare seem only to make some problems even worse. Hence it is only a matter of time before a single-payer becomes inevitable in this country. Therefore conservatives need to position themselves and come to terms with this eventual reality. And if history is a judge, many times it takes, say, a Nixon to go to China or a Clinton to do welfare reform. A Republican president may be the one who puts single-payer in place down the road.

The case for a single payer from a centre-right perspective is as follows:

The current burden on American corporations

According to the US Chamber of Commerce, group health insurance is the single most expensive benefit offered to employees. General Motors’ cost alone to offer health insurance yearly to employees is $5 billion dollars. To put it in perspective, health care insurance alone, adds $1,500-$2,000 to the price of each car that comes off the assembly line.

A RAND study from 2009 found that companies with higher levels of participation in employee health insurance benefits had much slower economic growth then those companies and industries which had lower health insurance costs or participation to deal with.

Let’s face it, health insurance is a drag on American competitiveness. Every major trading partner of the United States has some form of government-organized health care, so why do we continue to saddle American corporations like working donkeys with such expensive costs?

The burden to entrepreneurship

Americans pride ourselves on being the land of opportunity and of Horatio Alger. Yet the truth is social democratic Denmark now has higher levels of entrepreneurship than the USA. One primary difference between a Danish entrepreneur and his/her American counterpart is health care. Because of universal health care, a Danish worker with health problems can strike out on their own anytime and start up a business. Americans with health problems have to weigh the cost and benefit of leaving their jobs and decide if they can afford or even qualify for an individual health insurance policy.

Americans are more and more making working decisions based on health insurance. According to the Census Bureau, over 78 percent of all small business have no employees. Thus entrepreneurs in America are more likely to have to buy individual health insurance policies, which are usually more expensive and difficult to obtain than group health insurance.

The freest economy in the world has national health care

It is no secret conservatives and libertarians in the USA ♥ Hong Kong. After all HK has Ricardian free trade, low levels of regulations, no capital gains tax and an individual flat tax. Every year when the Heritage Foundation releases its Index of Economic Freedom, HK always tops the list.

However, HK has a dirty little secret. It has a very good national health care system. HK citizens have some of the highest life expectancies in the world but their government health care system only costs about three percent of their GDP to operate (a sharp contrast to the 20 percent of GDP that USA health care costs are expected to be in the next decade).

The point of the HK example is that this beacon of capitalism manages to operate the freest economy in the world while offering and providing a British-style national health service. if one listens to rightwing shock radio or the rhetoric of the Tea Party, it is impossible for that to happen. After all government health care would turn America into a giant Gulag Archipelago.

American conservatives are free to believe that a single-payer system in America will lead to a road to serfdom. Just don’t tell the citizens of Hong Kong, OK? You may embarrass yourself.

Happier workers for business owners

In many areas of America, words like “free trade” and “globalization” are fighting words. Blue collar America lives everyday with the worry that they will show up at work and find a sign saying, “Moved to China: See ya, Don’t want to be ya.”

Those workers are then left to scramble to find a job, usually for less pay and lesser benefits. In the meantime they go on unemployment insurance and hope they can pay their COBRA premiums with their unemployment pay and their spouse’s salary. (COBRA allows Americans to keep their former employer-offered health insurance if they pay the full cost once they leave the company. Typically, employers pay 50% of an employees health insurance premiums.)

Let’s contrast this to the Danish workforce again. When leftwing journalist Bob Kuttner traveled to Denmark, he discovered something very interesting (and probably fascinating since Kuttner is an advocate of managed trade). What he found was the Danish labor movement is completely at ease with free trade and globalization. Part of this is because of Denmark’s very proactive labor retraining policies; but some of it has to do with the fact that a Danish worker’s health care is not tied to their employment. So if a Danish worker’s job is outsourced to Poland, at least some of the pain is mitigated by not having to worry about losing health insurance.

If conservatives would like to take the teeth out of the American labor movement, what better way than to eliminated their fears about free trade and the free market by supporting a single-payer?

If it’s good enough for Margret Thatcher…

The name Margaret Thatcher is said with much reverence in the USA by conservatives, almost with the same love as for Ronald Reagan. Yet Lady Thatcher always supported Britain’s National Health Service(NHS). In 1983, for example, as she geared up for her re-election campaign, Thatcher said, “The NHS is safe in our hands.”

Rather ironic that if Lady Thatcher were to change citizenship, move to the USA and try and run for office as a Republican, she probably could not win a GOP primary. She would be denounced as a crypto-commie by Tea Party activists for having once supported “socialized health care.”

Thatcher– much like the other iconic conservative statesmen of the 20th century in Europe, from Winston Churchill to Konrad Adenauer to Ludwig Erhard to Charles DeGaulle– made peace with her country’s universal health care system. It is only in America where making peace with such an arrangement would be considered, “socialism” or “Marxism”.

The current system is unsustainable, a single-payer system is coming– it’s only a matter of time. Conservatives forget that health care is not an example of a perfect market. It is not the same as shopping for a car, choosing an airline or deciding which brand of cereal to buy. Health care is the quintessential example of information asymmetry (PDF).

If conservatives and Republicans can’t talk about these things, they will cede the issue to liberals and Democrats.

Pressing-On 04-03-2014 01:58 PM

Re: Republicans rolling out alternatives to OCare
 
Aquila, The only way to combat the rising cost of healthcare is to address issues like the inappropriate utilization of expensive treatment, chronic diseases, obesity, dishonesty in the medical industry; i,e. billing, ethics in Big Pharma, medical research, Medicare fraud, scheduled therapy, etc, etc...

We aren't going to get our food intake corrected until we fix why it costs more to buy a head of broccoli (healthy) than it is to buy a brown bag special (unhealthy).

All these other discussions and pseudo healthcare plan remedies are side issues, IMO. That includes any Republican plan being unveiled.

Pressing-On 04-03-2014 02:02 PM

Re: Republicans rolling out alternatives to OCare
 
Single Payer: Why Government-Run Health Care Will Harm Both Patients and Doctors

Such government control would:
  • Result in substantially lower payments to physicians and other health care providers compared to a multiple-payer system;
  • Reduce the quality of care by limiting the ability of physicians to invest in advanced medical equipment that takes advantage of new technology;
  • Limit access to care in the near term, as current physicians and other professionals retire earlier or otherwise leave the profession;
  • Limit access to care even more substantially in the long term, as the prospect of lower lifetime earnings reduces the incentive for talented people to choose careers in health care; and
  • Reduce the rate of medical progress, because fewer talented people receiving medical training decreases the supply of talented medical researchers.

Stingy Payer" Damages Future Generations as Well

The establishment of a "single payer" health care system would inevitably result in lower payments for physician and other health care providers. The immediate effect of having a single ("stingy") payer would be lower incomes for physicians and a reduction in the supply of active physicians, thereby impairing access to health care for all patients. However, the result of "single/stingy payer" health care will not only be lower incomes for physicians now but reduced access and lower quality health care for future generations as well.

http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...d-doctors?ac=1

Pressing-On 04-03-2014 02:06 PM

Re: Republicans rolling out alternatives to OCare
 
This was written in 2011 and is spot on. Robert Gibbs has just recently stated that the "mandate" will be the first to go in the OCare plan.

Quote:

Obama Offers States ‘Flexibility’ to Adopt Single-Payer instead of ObamaCare

No such state plan can make a dent in the federal laws that are fueling the relentless growth in the cost of health care (see Medicare, the federal tax treatment of health care, etc.). Therefore, the only way that states could cover as many people as ObamaCare does is by using ObamaCare’s tactic of forcing people to buy exorbitantly costly health insurance. And if they’re not going to use an individual mandate, the only remaining option is a single-payer health care system.

http://www.cato.org/blog/obama-offer...tead-obamacare

Aquila 04-04-2014 01:54 PM

Re: Republicans rolling out alternatives to OCare
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 1307285)
Single Payer: Why Government-Run Health Care Will Harm Both Patients and Doctors

Such government control would:
  • Result in substantially lower payments to physicians and other health care providers compared to a multiple-payer system;
  • Reduce the quality of care by limiting the ability of physicians to invest in advanced medical equipment that takes advantage of new technology;
  • Limit access to care in the near term, as current physicians and other professionals retire earlier or otherwise leave the profession;
  • Limit access to care even more substantially in the long term, as the prospect of lower lifetime earnings reduces the incentive for talented people to choose careers in health care; and
  • Reduce the rate of medical progress, because fewer talented people receiving medical training decreases the supply of talented medical researchers.

Stingy Payer" Damages Future Generations as Well

The establishment of a "single payer" health care system would inevitably result in lower payments for physician and other health care providers. The immediate effect of having a single ("stingy") payer would be lower incomes for physicians and a reduction in the supply of active physicians, thereby impairing access to health care for all patients. However, the result of "single/stingy payer" health care will not only be lower incomes for physicians now but reduced access and lower quality health care for future generations as well.

http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...d-doctors?ac=1

I disagree. That's all theoretical. I have friends and family in Canada. And my lady-love has lived in Europe. Things could be far better.

Luke 04-05-2014 12:02 AM

Re: Republicans rolling out alternatives to OCare
 
Why should I have to pay for someone else's health care? Where is the liberty in forcing others to pay for the health care of someone else? Would it not be more in line liberty and personal responsibility to allow companies to choose weather or not to offer health benefits and if so how much they want to offer while at the same time allowing individuals the option to purchase their own health plans if they so choose?

UnTraditional 04-05-2014 06:12 AM

Re: Republicans rolling out alternatives to OCare
 
Much of what we used to know as liberty has vanished, and it is our own fault. The reason, and the only reason we are under this fiasco is our own apathy and laziness. We allowed Obama and his minions to come in and take over, and even allowed it a second time. Now, Obama has rewritten our laws, trampled liberty, and crumpled the Constitution.

Aquila 04-07-2014 06:21 AM

Re: Republicans rolling out alternatives to OCare
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 1307415)
Why should I have to pay for someone else's health care? Where is the liberty in forcing others to pay for the health care of someone else?

You already are. Ever notice how insurance premiums increase? Why? The most expensive reason is because so many people don't pay their medical bills from hospitals, doctors, clinics, etc. Why? They don't have insurance. So, these providers write off what they can and pass down the loss in higher costs on care. As the costs on care rises... insurance companies raise premiums to cover the rising costs. Therefore, you already are paying for others, in the MOST expensive way imaginable. However, you're paying all the additional costs like administrative costs too. Also, these people can't afford to continue various treatments, so they hold off and rush to the ER when they can't manage, raising costs more. Then they declare bankruptcy, increasing costs even more. As premiums get higher and higher, more people opt out of purchasing insurance for themselves or their families. It's a cycle that creates a race to making health insurance unaffordable. And something has to be done to fix it before it becomes too expensive to fix. At least in single payer insurance, not only does everyone receive necessary care... but it's cheaper because they don't wait until they are nearly dying to get seen. Regular physicals keep things cheaper. Also, the vast majority pay SOMETHING into the system. So the truth is... only the Single Payer model truly forces EVERYONE to pay something for their health care.


Quote:

Would it not be more in line liberty and personal responsibility to allow companies to choose weather or not to offer health benefits and if so how much they want to offer while at the same time allowing individuals the option to purchase their own health plans if they so choose?
And as healthcare costs skyrocket most businesses will choose not to. Now, this plan races to the bottom... nobody insured. Does that really sound like a plan to you???

======

If you want a "Free Market" and "Personal Liberty" approach... you have to treat healthcare like other industries. If people don't have the financing (insurance)... or cold hard cash... turn them away at the ER before being seen. You don't just give away a product or service with "hopes" of payment in a free market system. It drives the prices up too high for anyone to afford until even the provider closes due to the cost of running the business. Imagine a car lot run like healthcare. You just show up, ask for a car, and they give it to you and bill you. The majority of folks don't pay their car bill, or pay very slowly. Still a large number of others declare bankruptcy. What would that do to the price of cars on the car lot? Well, the price would skyrocket as the dealer passed the losses down to the consumers. There is no "free market" approach to something as universal as healthcare.... unless we turn people away at the door if they don't have money or insurance. And... then we have to ask if that is ethical with regards to healthcare, seeing that it's often a matter of life and death?

In the modern world... there is no other way than to force everyone to pay SOMETHING into the system. Single Payer would do that. Also, it would release businesses and corporations from having to pay for it unless they wanted to offer elective packages to supplement the Single Payer plan, but that wouldn't be required. It would free companies and corporations to focus on one thing... business.

Pressing-On 04-07-2014 09:24 AM

Re: Republicans rolling out alternatives to OCare
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1307546)
You already are. Ever notice how insurance premiums increase? Why? The most expensive reason is because so many people don't pay their medical bills from hospitals, doctors, clinics, etc. Why? They don't have insurance. So, these providers write off what they can and pass down the loss in higher costs on care. As the costs on care rises... insurance companies raise premiums to cover the rising costs. Therefore, you already are paying for others, in the MOST expensive way imaginable. However, you're paying all the additional costs like administrative costs too. Also, these people can't afford to continue various treatments, so they hold off and rush to the ER when they can't manage, raising costs more. Then they declare bankruptcy, increasing costs even more. As premiums get higher and higher, more people opt out of purchasing insurance for themselves or their families. It's a cycle that creates a race to making health insurance unaffordable. And something has to be done to fix it before it becomes too expensive to fix. At least in single payer insurance, not only does everyone receive necessary care... but it's cheaper because they don't wait until they are nearly dying to get seen. Regular physicals keep things cheaper. Also, the vast majority pay SOMETHING into the system. So the truth is... only the Single Payer model truly forces EVERYONE to pay something for their health care.




And as healthcare costs skyrocket most businesses will choose not to. Now, this plan races to the bottom... nobody insured. Does that really sound like a plan to you???

======

If you want a "Free Market" and "Personal Liberty" approach... you have to treat healthcare like other industries. If people don't have the financing (insurance)... or cold hard cash... turn them away at the ER before being seen. You don't just give away a product or service with "hopes" of payment in a free market system. It drives the prices up too high for anyone to afford until even the provider closes due to the cost of running the business. Imagine a car lot run like healthcare. You just show up, ask for a car, and they give it to you and bill you. The majority of folks don't pay their car bill, or pay very slowly. Still a large number of others declare bankruptcy. What would that do to the price of cars on the car lot? Well, the price would skyrocket as the dealer passed the losses down to the consumers. There is no "free market" approach to something as universal as healthcare.... unless we turn people away at the door if they don't have money or insurance. And... then we have to ask if that is ethical with regards to healthcare, seeing that it's often a matter of life and death?

In the modern world... there is no other way than to force everyone to pay SOMETHING into the system. Single Payer would do that. Also, it would release businesses and corporations from having to pay for it unless they wanted to offer elective packages to supplement the Single Payer plan, but that wouldn't be required. It would free companies and corporations to focus on one thing... business.

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened."

– Norman Thomas, American socialist

Just sayin', Aquila.....


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