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Oneness Pentecostals Are Right on Baptism

... but not much else.

Re: Oneness Pentecostals Are Right on Baptism

Even then, on water baptism, only partially right.

Baptism in the NAME of JESUS is biblically and historically correct. However, their reasoning behind it is faulty.

It would be better to simply state that Christians must be baptized because it is a biblical command.

Re: Oneness Pentecostals Are Right on Baptism

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson (Post 1320362)

I believe that normatively baptism precedes the new birth of the spirit/salvation. It is indeed linked to repentance. Peter said "

Quote:

repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ FOR the remission of your sins

"

The word "FOR" is the Greek "EIS" which is always forward looking. It cannot mean "because of". The correct rendering therefore of this verse is..."Repent and be baptized everyone of you ON the name of the Lord Jesus Christ in order that your sins may be forgiven."

Where I feel our movement errs is when we say 'baptism washes away sins" or even saying "baptism is for the remission of sins" without clarification. First of all, Acts 2:38 links both baptism AND repentance for the remission of sins. But I also see a subtle difference is saying that repentance and baptism are for the remission of sins versus saying "in order that your sins may be forgiven". The latter phrase makes repentance and baptism the doorway or step of faith towards the forgiveness of sins, but place the forgiveness itself slightly beyond the baptism. Oneness folks seem to think that God somehow uses baptism to wash away sin, and I think this is error. I believe that what Peter in essence is saying in Acts 2 and all throughout Acts is....

Quote:

"If you believe the word we are preaching concerning the fact that God raised his Son Jesus from the dead, glorified him, and placed in him all authority in Heaven and in Earth, including the power to forgive sins, then obey this good news now ! submit to the rule of God's glorified , risen Son by calling on him as Lord in repentance and submitting to his authority in baptism. When you do that, God will forgive you for Christ's sake."

So, we repent and are baptized "FOR" (in order that) our sins might be forgiven. But who does the remitting/forgiving of the sins? God does for Christ's sake! God remits our sins by the authority of Christ The baptism or the spoken invocation of a minister does not remit the sins!.

Somehow in our zeal to make sure everyone has the right words spoken over them in baptism, we subconsciously lead them to believe that the baptism is washing away their sins or the spoken word of the baptizer, No way!! God HIMSELF does the forgiving when we submit to the authority of his risen/glorified Son by repenting and being baptized.

Re: Oneness Pentecostals Are Right on Baptism

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson (Post 1320361)

... but not much else.

Come on give them a break.
after all most denominations got something right.

The Lutherans were right about salvation being by faith.
The spirit was trying to guide them unto greater truth, but they got stuck there.

The Baptists were right about baptism being important for salvation.
The spirit was trying to guide them unto greater truth, but they got stuck there.

The Pentecostals were right about the gifts of the spirit.
The spirit was trying to guide them unto greater truth, but they got stuck there.

The problem I see is that most denominations get stuck somewhere.

Re: Oneness Pentecostals Are Right on Baptism

I agree with Oneness Pentecostals:

The Oneness of God, Jesus Only.

Acts 2:38 is the full plan of salvation.

Re: Oneness Pentecostals Are Right on Baptism

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1320383)

I agree with Oneness Pentecostals:

The Oneness of God, Jesus Only.

Acts 2:38 is the full plan of salvation.

It's my understanding that the term "Jesus Only" was a phrase created by our detractors to describe the way be baptize (as in, "they baptize only in the name of Jesus"), not to describe our view of the Godhead. Later people began to misunderstand and apply the term to our belief in the Godhead, erroneously. They use this term to perpetuate the myth that we deny the existence of the Father and Holy Ghost. I'm curious as to why you would be a party to perpetuating a gross misrepresentation of our beliefs.

Re: Oneness Pentecostals Are Right on Baptism

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1320363)

I believe that normatively baptism precedes the new birth of the spirit/salvation. It is indeed linked to repentance. Peter said ""

The word "FOR" is the Greek "EIS" which is always forward looking. It cannot mean "because of". The correct rendering therefore of this verse is..."Repent and be baptized everyone of you ON the name of the Lord Jesus Christ in order that your sins may be forgiven."

Where I feel our movement errs is when we say 'baptism washes away sins" or even saying "baptism is for the remission of sins" without clarification. First of all, Acts 2:38 links both baptism AND repentance for the remission of sins. But I also see a subtle difference is saying that repentance and baptism are for the remission of sins versus saying "in order that your sins may be forgiven". The latter phrase makes repentance and baptism the doorway or step of faith towards the forgiveness of sins, but place the forgiveness itself slightly beyond the baptism. Oneness folks seem to think that God somehow uses baptism to wash away sin, and I think this is error. I believe that what Peter in essence is saying in Acts 2 and all throughout Acts is....

Brother, forgive me for butting in, but I beg to differ on the highlighted statement. I will just post this verse. I will not get further into it here, we did that months ago. God Bless

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

I dont see another concept presented here to wash away sins, but to be baptized. If I was on the receiving end of that statement, I would have equated baptism with my sins being washed away. (you know..WATER(baptized)....WASH, (I kinda see it like that), just most folks use water to wash stuff, but what do I know?, maybe baptism is like a "waterless car wash"...LOL....respectfully

So, we repent and are baptized "FOR" (in order that) our sins might be forgiven. But who does the remitting/forgiving of the sins? God does for Christ's sake! God remits our sins by the authority of Christ The baptism or the spoken invocation of a minister does not remit the sins!.

Somehow in our zeal to make sure everyone has the right words spoken over them in baptism, we subconsciously lead them to believe that the baptism is washing away their sins or the spoken word of the baptizer, No way!! God HIMSELF does the forgiving when we submit to the authority of his risen/glorified Son by repenting and being baptized.

Re: Oneness Pentecostals Are Right on Baptism

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean (Post 1320398)

.Brother, forgive me for butting in, but I beg to differ on the highlighted statement. I will just post this verse. I will not get further into it here, we did that months ago. God Bless

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

I dont see another concept presented here to wash away sins, but to be baptized. If I was on the receiving end of that statement, I would have equated baptism with my sins being washed away. (you know..WATER(baptized)....WASH, (I kinda see it like that), just most folks use water to wash stuff, but what do I know?, maybe baptism is like a "waterless car wash"...LOL....respectfully

Quote:

24 But God hath raised Him up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it.

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, of which we are all witnesses.

33 Therefore, being exalted by the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, He hath shed forth this which ye now see and hear.

36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.” (Acts 2:24,32-33,36)

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13 The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified His Son Jesus, whom ye delivered up, and denied Him in the presence of Pilate when he was determined to let Him go.

18 But those things which God before had shown by the mouth of all His prophets, that Christ should suffer, He hath thus fulfilled.

19 Repent ye therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

26 Unto you first, God, having raised up His Son Jesus, sent Him to bless you in turning every one of you away from his iniquities.” (Acts 3:13,18-19,26)

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Act 4:2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.

10 be it known unto you all and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified and whom God raised from the dead, even by Him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is ‘the stone which was set at nought by you builders and which has become the head of the corner.’

12 Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.”

Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. (Acts 2,10-12,33)

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30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31 Him hath God exalted with His right hand to be a Prince and a Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are His witnesses of these things, and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to those who obey Him.” (Acts 5:30-32)

Quote:

36 The Word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all) —

37 that Word, I say, ye know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached:

38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

39 And we are witnesses of all things which He did, both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem — He whom they hanged on a tree and slew.

40 Him God raised up the third day and showed Him openly,

41 not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He rose from the dead.

42 And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be the Judge of the quick and dead.

43 To Him all the prophets bear witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.” (Acts 10:36-43)

Sean, we don't preach much of this as the apostles did. Rather, in our zeal to correct all the other churches' doctrine, we skip all of this and preach baptism in the name of Jesus as the gospel. We give the credit to releasing someone from the condemnation of sin to the preacher invoking the name in baptism instead of to Jesus himself!! Too many people in our churches even understand why they're being baptized because we do not follow the Apostolic method of preaching "things concerning the Kingdom of God and the name (authority) of the Lord Jesus Christ."

Yes, to be forgiven one must repent of their sins and be baptized. But it's not the repenting and baptizing that is giving the forgiveness. Only God in Christ can do that.

Re: Oneness Pentecostals Are Right on Baptism

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1320408)

Brother, do you not know figurative language when you read it? There is nothing literally washed at baptism. Peter made it clear that is not the putting away of the filth of the flesh by which baptism doth now "save" us. Even Peter used the term "like figure". This verse you quoted does not in any way contradict what I posted. Not at all. The term "remission" in Acts 2:38 literally means "forgiveness". Water is not a living person. Only a person can forgive sin. I am clearly connecting baptism as a step towards forgiveness. But a baptismal candidate needs to know why he is bring baptized. At most Oneness churches all a baptismal candidate would hear about is the "name being invoked" and that baptism literally washing away his sins. That is not Apostolic teaching. In Acts people repented and got baptized because they "believed those things preached concerning the kingdom of God and the name (authority) of Jesus Christ" (Acts 8:12) And what were those "things" that the Apostles preached concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ?

Sean, we don't preach much of this as the apostles did. Rather, in our zeal to correct all the other churches' doctrine, we skip all of this and preach baptism in the name of Jesus as the gospel. We give the credit to releasing someone from the condemnation of sin to the preacher invoking the name in baptism instead of to Jesus himself!! Too many people in our churches even understand why they're being baptized because we do not follow the Apostolic method of preaching "things concerning the Kingdom of God and the name (authority) of the Lord Jesus Christ."

Yes, to be forgiven one must repent of their sins and be baptized. But it's not the repenting and baptizing that is giving the forgiveness. Only God in Christ can do that.

I see what you are saying bro. but think about you just wrote for a minute...

Instead of reading and agreeing with a passage and its simple meaning, you needed a paragraph and numerous verses of sorts to explain into the passage a "different" meaning.

This is PRECISELY why all of Christianity is divided today, generally speaking. Men provide "lectures" about simple passages that were originally wrote for 1st century, (barely) literate folks that could EASILY be understood. And have made MASTERY of the scriptures with huge commentaries of mens opinions about a super simple verse such as the one we are talking about.

These days...NOTHING means what it says anymore regarding the Bible.

Bro. I choose to read it and believe it like a 5th grader and trust it with all my heart, aside from the PHDs that spend a lifetime trying to "discipher" the so called "secret" meanings of the Bible.

Im not trying to get on your case at all here. I am just trying to make you see the big picture of what is going on in Christianity as a whole. We have 1 Bible with thousands of denominations, all with a differing meaning OF THE SAME BOOK. Doesnt that trip you out to think about?
It does me....

My only suggestion to anybody reading is DONT TRY TO OUTSMART THIS BIBLE, BECAUSE IT WILL ALWAYS OUTSMART YOU...every time!...LOL