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-   -   Obey them that have the rule over you (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=47303)

KeptByTheWord 01-09-2015 03:00 PM
Obey them that have the rule over you
 
How do you interpret this passage of scripture? Hebrews 13:7-17 ... considering especially verses 7 and 17?

7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.

11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

16 But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.

17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Originalist 01-09-2015 03:26 PM
Re: Obey them that have the rule over you
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1351293)
How do you interpret this passage of scripture? Hebrews 13:7-17 ... considering especially verses 7 and 17?

7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.

11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

16 But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.

17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
It means that if your pastor renounces the Apostolic doctrine that you are duty bound to follow him without question.

shazeep 01-09-2015 03:32 PM
Re: Obey them that have the rule over you
 
:lol

Pressing-On 01-09-2015 03:34 PM
Re: Obey them that have the rule over you
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1351295)
It means that if your pastor renounces the Apostolic doctrine that you are duty bound to follow him without question.
I'm sure you are being factious.

However, and seriously, the passage does not mean to follow leadership blindly.

"Considering" in the Greek means, "to look at attentively, to consider well, to observe accurately." :thumbsup

No one is given carte blanche with the Gospel. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but the Bible never gives a person permission to follow whatever path they think is right - in their own eyes.

shazeep 01-09-2015 03:38 PM
Re: Obey them that have the rule over you
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1351293)
How do you interpret this passage of scripture? Hebrews 13:7-17 ... considering especially verses 7 and 17?
in the context that when it was written it was natch assumed that your society's and nation's leaders would be men of faith. this is not talking about "church" imo.

Timmy 01-09-2015 03:43 PM
Re: Obey them that have the rule over you
 
Well, it's easier to obey them (thinking of pastors, here) if you choose them carefully in the first place: find one that believes as you already do. :heeheehee

shazeep 01-09-2015 03:57 PM
Re: Obey them that have the rule over you
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 1351299)
...the Bible never gives a person permission to follow whatever path they think is right - in their own eyes.
here we go :lol

granted, in context. The other side of that coin is that if you are truly seeking God--and not vanity--then it is ultimately you seeking your own salvation. You can trust that the Spirit will guide you, even through painful lessons in vanity, which early ones often are. It is difficult to learn to see the unseen; and an argument can be made that "in your own eyes" is the only way you can come to understand something, especially when it is learning to see with different eyes. You are prolly going to pretty much follow the Wanderings in the Sinai, no matter what; and if you are stalled somewhere on that path you might at least consider whether you are being led to a new Right Pastor, imo, but the point is people are going to differ on points, this is how they--hopefully--grow.

shazeep 01-09-2015 03:59 PM
Re: Obey them that have the rule over you
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy (Post 1351302)
Well, it's easier to obey them (thinking of pastors, here) if you choose them carefully in the first place: find one that believes as you already do. :heeheehee
hmm, i think this misrepresents a pastor's role...but then, i would! :D

KeptByTheWord 01-09-2015 04:46 PM
Re: Obey them that have the rule over you
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1351295)
It means that if your pastor renounces the Apostolic doctrine that you are duty bound to follow him without question.
I know you meant this with humor... but seriously... would you assume then it is talking about a pastor's role? What about the other 5-fold ministries?

KeptByTheWord 01-09-2015 04:46 PM
Re: Obey them that have the rule over you
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shazeep (Post 1351300)
in the context that when it was written it was natch assumed that your society's and nation's leaders would be men of faith. this is not talking about "church" imo.
So you are thinking this passage has more to do with political government rather than church government?


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