Does the golden rule save without the cross?
 

This needs to be answered. There is a proliferation on the forum of a crossless salvation lately.

Is the work of the cross (i.e., the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for our justification and righteousness and remission of sins) not necessary, so long as we do to others what we would have them do to us? In other words, does salvation come by works? That is what the question is asking.

We must do to others what we would have done to us. But that does not save us. It is just what must be done AFTER salvation. It can never save. It truly is NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD.

It has been proposed on this apostolic forum that if a person never believed in Jesus dying on the cross, the same salvation the cross provides is provided so long as people do unto others what they would have done unto them. Is this true? That is essentially what the poll is asking.

Re: Does the golden rule save without the cross?
 

The reality of the cross' glory is seen in true grace. Unmerited favour. God saw us with absolutely no redeeming qualities about us. Nothing we had within us and nothing we had the capability of doing could save ourselves. We were utterly worthless in and of ourselves, except for the fact that we were the focus of God's greatest love. Not because of what we could do or how good we were. We were vile sinners. And the absolutely wonderful reality about the cross was that it showed God loving us so much that His Son was given to die. Jesus died for us while we were sinners.

Paul the apostle stated this was unprecedented love.

Rom 5:6-8....For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. ..(7)....For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. ..(8)....But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

The world cannot comprehend this kind of love. The world will not love unless they receive back in return. Sinners cannot understand how Jesus could ask the Father forgiveness for the murderers who crucified Him. In Luke 23, all around the crucifixion we read about everyone deriding Him and mocking Him. And when the women wept for Him, He was more concerned over them than He was Himself when he told them to weep for themselves and their children. That generation was going to be slaughtered in 40 years when judgment would come to Jerusalem because of the cross.

But He asked forgiveness for those wicked, sinful murderers.

Talk about grace! Unmerited favour!

What does the world say about it? It's a MYTH! Cannot be true! You cannot love someone if you think they are a sinner.

And this has raised the hate of the world in believers, especially lately due to the fact that gay rights are being promoted and forced in situations where they ought not be forced. Schools forced to cater to homosexuality with transgendered washroom laws. They cannot stand the thought that Christians and the Bible consider homosexaulity an abomination to God. To them, if you think someone is a sinner you can only hate the person. they cannot comprehend the love of God that loves people while they're in sin. The only way they can imagine love is if there are no sinners. So they call Christians hateful people who believe homosexuality is sin.

But this is actually a prime atmosphere to witness to them about the love of God. Jesus DID die for us all when all of us were sinners. That is the core of our religion! Love for sinners. In fact, until we confess the fact we are sinners and cannot earn our way to glory because any good that comes from sinners like us can never save ourselves, we believe we cannot be saved.

Not only is the basis of our religion the love of God for sinners who cannot save themselves, but we are taught to love those who despitefully use us and do good to them who despise and hate us. We are taught to turn the other cheek and not render evil for evil.

And beyond all of that, aside from Jesus, Stephen preached in Acts 7 to Israel and told them they were vile and wicked people and they killed the Just One, Jesus Christ, and God's wrath would come. He held nothing back from accusing them of being sinners. And when the world would cry, "HATE SPEECH!", they started to stone him to death. But while he was dying, he not only commended his spirit to Jesus as Jesus commended His own to the Father on the cross, Stephen also asked for the forgiveness of his murderers, and that murder to not be laid to their charge.

Hate speech? lol

And THIS kind of love cannot be accepted by the world. So the world calls Christians haters and the bible hate speech.

If they cling to the Bible, but maintain homosexuality is still no sin, like some deceived churches propose, they still manifest the same worldly concept of love: You cannot love someone if you think someone is a sinner. So, these churches are dark, deceived and as blind as the world, and have no right to be so much as called "churches."

At any rate, the recent proliferation of accusations of hate and wickedness leveled against people on this forum like myself for saying people are sinners and are lost, is the same spirit and deception of unbelief as the world holds because they believe we cannot love people if we accuse them of being lost.

Basically, this is a manifestation of unbelief in the reality of the love of God that loves people while they are yet sinners. This worldly love cannot love to that degree. It has to convince itself these sinful lifestyles are not sinful, because they can get themselves to love those people involved in them. Not Christians. Christians are taught to love everyone regardless of their sin. And the only kind of so-called "Christianity" that these unbelievers actually have is the kind that holds signs up saying God hates gay people, when in reality anyone who reads their bible knows that God loves gay people and every other sinner who exists on earth, like he loved us BEFORE He washed us from those sins.

The world cannot grasp this verse. Notice the terms used to describe how God WASHED, NOT OVERLOOKED, sins from people, showing us we are not that way forever, but can CHANGE from any sinful lifestyle by the power of God.

1Co 6:9-11....You know that wicked people will not inherit the kingdom of God, don't you? Stop deceiving yourselves! Sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, ..(10)....thieves, greedy people, drunks, slanderers, and robbers will not inherit the kingdom of God. ..(11)....That is what [b]some of you were! But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus the Messiah and by the Spirit of our God.

What can was away my sins? NOTHING but the blood of Jesus. Not the golden rule, not works of law... nothing saves but the blood of Jesus.

Re: Does the golden rule save without the cross?
 

unfortunately, rather than simply ask the question, you have imposed your bias upon it in post #1, which does not accurately reflect the principal. if you will try again, and ask from my pov as i did for you, i will vote. i submit that you will not be able to even do this, with all due respect, as phrasing the Q correctly is not in the interests of your agenda.

Re: Does the golden rule save without the cross?
 

Answer the poll according to the actual question.

Who cares about post #1? Just answer the poll itself. If you do not think salvation by the golden rule without the cross is salvation by works, then disagree it is. And everyone here will know that is how you answered.

But please explain how it is not salvation by works.

Also, let's all chime in and ask whether or not salvation through the golden rule without the cross is not salvation by works.

In fact I will ask ADMIN to delete the first post. so you can answer yes or no.

Re: Does the golden rule save without the cross?
 

Personally I cant remember meeting one person in 42 years of Jesus that seemed like a Christian who ever believed such a thing.

Re: Does the golden rule save without the cross?
 

I did not either until I met...

He actually believes you can be saved by the golden rule without believing Jesus was actually crucified. But he can speak for himself.

MTD, would you say that idea is salvation by works?

Re: Does the golden rule save without the cross?
 

the actual question is misrepresentative and therefore pointless, sorry. It is not 'without the cross,' it is the Word of Christ, man :lol

as i say, you will not be able to pose a neutral question that would elicit a meaningful response.

How is the question itself misrepresentative? Explain what it should be.

Re: Does the golden rule save without the cross?
 

you have intentionally introduced a question within a question to reinforce your pov. "Does practicing the GR save one" would be a neutral question, and "does practicing the GR save one, like Christ said" would be my pov. And the fact that i have to make this clear is a bit ridiculous, don't you think?

Like Christ said?

That is not neutral by any means!

The question could be, "Did Christ say practicing the golden rule saves us?"


It's not ridiculous because you make statements that leave one with these questions.