[samuelofisrael]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

This is what I am questioning. You have no proof at all that the Pastor and the Elder are two different things. Last time I looked the word PASTOR was not in the New Testament.

Can you give the Pastors duties and qualifications by New Testament scripture?

Actually Paul gives the duties and the qualifications in that God has ordained them.

I believe I have pointed out the distinction [in Scripture] that a pastor CAN be an elder but an elder is not necessarily THE pastor. Elders "shepard, rule, can teach is so able and oversee," but that in and of itself does not make them the pastor in the sense of the God ordained FIVE FOLD MINISTRY.

Eph 4:10-11

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11 And he gave some apostles; some prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

The giving of these gifted men is by the LORD not of congregational ordination tho the fellowship can recognize the gifting and call these men to minister to them.

PASTOR:

NT:4166

poimeen, poimenos, ho

a herdsman, especially a shepherd

a. properly: Mt 9:36
b. metaphorically, the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ the Head of the church, Jn 10:16

ELDERS:

NT:4245

presbuteros, presbutera, presbuteron

elder

1. of age
a. where two persons are spoken of, the elder: Lk 15:25
b. universally, advanced in life, an elder, a senior:
2. a term of rank or office; as such borne by,
a. among the Jews, -- Mt 16:21
.... those who in the separate cities managed public affairs and administered justice: Lk 7:3

b. among Christians, those who presided over the assemblies (or churches):

Ac 11:30 -- Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:

30 Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.

Seems to be a distinction as indicated by the Text. I know elders of congregations that hardly if ever teach but they do oversee the affairs of the fellowship in other matters and may even possess a charismatic gifting.

For those who see the Biblical importance of plurality, that should suffice. If they wish to quibble about a "pastor" and the "elders" being one and the same, so be it. In the real world functioning of a congregation the "offices" or ministries reveal themselves in manifestation regardless of our present thinking. But, if Scripture is addressed, the difference appears in both the Book of Acts and in other passages. Peter, as an Apostle, stated he could not be concerned with serving tables but had to concentrate on other matters. Ac. 6:2. The deacons chosen by the people were to oversee that function.

Is "pastor" and "elder" two distinct functioning ministries in its practical and Biblical meaning? I believe the answer is YES. If you see it differently we would have a slight disagreement.