[RJR]

Originally Posted by obriencp

This is why some believe that there is a separation/difference between salvation at repentance and believing and a later empowering of the the Holy Ghost, IE tongues as an external manifistation.

I can show you where Cornelius was devout, prayed always, fasted, was charitable, saw an angel in a vision who knew and spoke his name, and still was not saved. Acts 11:14-17. The only difference between the early verses of Acts 10 and the later verses of Acts 10 was Cornelius received the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues and was baptized in Jesus name.

Originally Posted by obriencp

One could also read this as they hadn't heard of the empowerment of being filled with the Holy Ghost. Paul never stated they weren't saved. He did however pray for them that they too could receive a greater blessing that had been experienced by others.

Neither did he say they were saved. He knew that if they had believed on Him as the scripture hath said, out of their bellies SHALL flow rivers of living water, this was spoken of the Spirit. St John 7:38-39. In other words, if they believed as the scripture teaches they should have received the Holy Ghost, which was indeed his question.

Originally Posted by obriencp

Most OPs cannot separate tongues from salvation, or water from salvation. If you separate tongues from salvation, it's not so hard to see how one could be saved long before they ever speak in tongues. Acts traces the spread of the church and outpouring of the Holy Ghost. The experience of tongues was to prove to the apostles that God was not a respector of persons and that all could be saved under this new covenant.

You do not believe that everyone that is born of the spirit has an accompanying sound? Acts 2:4, Acts 2:33, St John 3:8, Acts 10:46?

Originally Posted by obriencp

On a separate note... we love to throw out verses that connect baptism to salvation. How many more verses connect believing/faith to salvation or having life? Now i expect people to counter this with James ch 2 to bolster the claim that faith and repentance alone cannot bring salvation.

The facts are, that Bible believing or Bible faith is not mere acknowledgment or assent, faith produces action. Believeth and is baptized Mark 16:16, cometh to God must believe that he is and is a rewarder of them that DILIGENTLY SEEK Him Heb 11:6, believing is obedience Rom 10:17, faith without works is dead being alone, as the body without the spirit is dead faith without works is dead also, James 2.