[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

The sheep from the goats is the ONLY issue that, according to Jesus, saved these people

Context. You have to speak in context of everything else Jesus and the apostles stated, Which is why I presented to you passages for you to state whether or not you believe in them. teh works these sheep do follow their faith in Christ that saves. Works are necessary.

Tit 3:8 KJV This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

But they don't save us. What saves us and makes us righteous are God's WORKS of the cross. And we do good works BECAUSE we're saved. People who do not do what Jesus told the sheep they did not do are those who either backslid or never had faith in Christ's work of the cross to begin with.


Will you repeat these following words, with YOUR NAME inserted in them to say you agree with the bible?

Php 2:8-11 KJV And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. (9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: (10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; (11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

Jesus, as I said, showed you the way. You choose that way or not.

Yes he did. And I explained WORKS FOLLOW salvation. So, yes or no, do you believe we are saved by the work of Jesus on the cross BEFORE WE GET A CHANCE TO DO ONE GOOD DEED?

Jesus showed you to pray and fast. Jesus taught you about charity and in His parable he clearly showed that lack of charity condemns you. Jesus taught you that greed will deny you entry to paradise. Jesus did not teach you that a magic formula will save you.

I agree. But Jesus also said no works we do can save us, but it's the works of HIMSELF.

If you do and follow what Jesus taught you, then you believe in Jesus yes?

I believe all He said. Do you?

This is what Jesus said:

19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

In the same chapter, Jesus also said this:

28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

Does what you say sound anything like what Jesus said Blume? No, it does not.

I believe everything Jesus said. Show me what He said that I do not believe. If we spent time on those verses you'd see I preach and teach and practice them.

But I have give you verses that show God saves BY HIS GOOD WORKS, NOT OURS, and you have not responded once to those verses.

the all important detail you're repeatedly missing is that WORKS ARE INVOLVED, BUT ONLY AFTER God saves us BY HIS GOOD DEEDS of the cross, before we get a chance to do one good deed. When are you going to address that? That covers everything Jesus said that you quote.

This is in Old and New Testaments.

Ecclesiastes 12:

13The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. 14For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil.

But those good acts DO NOT SAVE US FROM SIN. You are not dealing with that statement

II Cor 5 says it:

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Revelations 20 says it:

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books

So many I can get tired of copying them. I have not shown you "what I believe", I have simply shown you what your own book says. Hopefully you see the difference?

I agree with all those verses. But THE CONTEXT of them is the fact that GOOD WORKS FOLLOW true salvation and do not CAUSE salvation. Again, Jesus and the apostles taught we are saved BEFORE we get a chance to do one good deed. You disagree! By your continued avoidance of the scriptures that teach this truth you are showing more and more how you disagree with the Bible, because you can only work with it by detaching verses and passages from the overall concept presented in the entire Word that says GOD'S WORKS save us and not our good deeds.

Once again, explain these verses:

Eph 2:8-9 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Tit 3:5 KJV Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Rom 11:6 KJV And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Deeds FOLLOW salvation, but we are not SAVED BY GOOD DEEDS.

Rom 4:4-6 KJV Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. (5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Please explain them and how you agree with them. You and Shazeep are pros at the great sidestep and dodge.