Quote:
Originally Posted by Tithesmeister
It’s like this;
[19] There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
[20] And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
[21] And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
[22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
[23] And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
[24] And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
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But wait, there is more:
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. -
Luk 16:25-31 KJV
What if there is no hell and Jesus was just telling the story of the rich man many many years later after he died, already in the eternal judgment? like transporting us to the day he wakes up from his Sheol after the eternal judgment has taken place.
Let's look at some facts from the story:
The rich man died.
The rich man had relatives.
The rich man was aware his relatives were in another place, unaware, while he was tormented, at the same time.
The rich man's relatives had Moses' writings available.
The rich man thinks that the only way somebody can communicate with his relatives is if somebody rises from the dead and talk to them.
Therefore, we can see two different conditions: the rich man who died but it is aware of the condition of the relatives, and the relatives who have no clue (or don't believe) of that tormenting place, and have available to them Moses' writings, and can be communicated with if somebody rises from the dead, and therefore, we can imply that the relatives are not dead, but instead they are in the land of the living.
So, how can these two human conditions can be true at the same time, if there is not a real Hades? On one hand, we have somebody tormented unable to communicate with his relatives, and at the same time, on the other hand, relatives unaware of the situation, that are alive.
Jesus cannot be describing a transportation in time to the eternal judgment, because then the relatives would be also in the same condition, making Jesus's story a contradiction. Unless, of course, one believes that the eternal judgment is not really an event for the entirety of humanity at once, but an ongoing thing which allows for people being already resurrected, and eternally judged, and thrown into the lake of fire, while others are in the land of the living unaware. That would then take us to another discussion.