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Old 06-26-2024, 11:16 AM
donfriesen1 donfriesen1 is offline
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Re: John3 and Romans2: Part2

Enoch lived in a time when God had not given law. Some call this time the Age of Conscience because of there being no law. Does the Bible call it an Age of Conscience? No. People do. A man who started 2 Bible schools and Pastored in both foreign and domestic churches, starting multiple churches during his ministry may be qualified enough to use this term. It may not be good enough for any other to use, but I'll accept his estimation, along with others, on whether it is appropriate or not.

How did people discern between right and wrong in Enoch's time? This is an important question because it is in the Age of Conscience that God judges the world for sin, by the Flood. Ro5.13 says For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Paul says there is no law but still says that sin was in the world. Sin is usually defined as breaking the law. How can Paul say that there was no law but in the same breath say that they are breaking the law. There must have been another standard for determining sin, of determining right and wrong. Even if many don't read the Bible everyone still feels it is wrong to lie. This feeling, in those who don't read the Bible, comes from the conscience God placed in Man, and also from our intellect. (Nit-pickers will say we shouldn't live by our feelings. And nit-pickers will also say we should use our feelings because that is how we descern what is going on in the world around us.) When someone lies to us we are bothered by it. We feel wronged when lied to and our intellect/reasoning tells us if we feel wronged when lied to, then it is wrong to lie to anyone else because they may feel wronged. Conscience is the standard-maker-for-sin in the time when Paul says there was no law. If not this then what?

Also, we are made in the image of God. God has a built-in standard of right and wrong that is within him. (The nit-picker will say that God has no 'internal'.) In eternity he has no Book like the Bible for standards of right and wrong. He is the standard. If God has an internal standard of right and wrong, and we are made in his image, isn't it logical that we also would be created with an internal standard of right and wrong? Logic and faith in what God's Word tells us about the image of God would make this true. When God created Adam and Eve they were given perhaps one law, don't eat that fruit, and the means for the determining of right and wrong was from within them, their conscience and intellect. It was the sin-determiner till the giving of the Law at Sinai. Enoch lived by his conscience and intellect. While not specifically mentioned in an earlier post (because his fame is so great it needed no mention), it is well-known by me and most of the Christian world, without mention, that he pleased God, that God took him. Christians believe he went to heaven without seeing death. If Enoch doesn't have the Word of God to give him faith to live right because law didn't exist, then what is the source of his faith? It has got to come from somewhere, but it doesn't come from a non-extant Word or Law. (The nit-picker will say that the Word of God is forever settled in Heaven, therefore exists eternally.) Where does your reasoning ability say Enoch's faith comes from? Mine tells me that it comes from his conscience and intellect because, apart from divine revelation, what other source could it be? There is no law. Enoch certainly had faith but didn't have faith in the Word of God because it was not yet given. Similarly, these Gentiles in Ro2.12-16 have faith of sorts like Enoch and Paul says they don't have the law.