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Originally Posted by donfriesen1
Very good scriptures all could agree are true.
No one has yet called Jos a liar.
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Are you looking for someone to call Joshua a liar? I personally can’t see how Joshua was lying (wanting to deceive with intent) or mistaken (ignorance of all available information) Joshua understood the information and his own history.
Therefore he was presenting the facts available.
But everyone has danced around the apparent contradiction, saying nothing of it, pretending it has not happened. What is the purpose of putting on the blinders? Why doesn't anyone talk about the elephant in the room?
Quote:
Originally Posted by donfriesen1
Plz, in light of those scriptures, could someone comment on the following scripture. Apparently the Lord himself here doesn't agree with the insinuations that everything that was promised was received/possessed/dwelt in. Jos says they have, in 21.43 saying all the promised land was received, possessed and dwelt in - contradicting the following verses. This is a far cry from saying the legal owners have not got their legal right because of disobedience. I am not blind. I can read the text of both verses.
Jos13 Now Joshua was old, advanced in years. And the Lord said to him: “You are old, advanced in years, and there remains very much land yet to be possessed. 2 This is the land that yet remains: all the territory of the Philistines and all that of the Geshurites, 3 from Sihor, which is east of Egypt, as far as the border of Ekron northward (which is counted as Canaanite); the five lords of the Philistines—the Gazites, the Ashdodites, the Ashkelonites, the Gittites, and the Ekronites; also the Avites; 4 from the south, all the land of the Canaanites, and Mearah that belongs to the Sidonians as far as Aphek, to the border of the Amorites; 5 the land of the Gebalites, and all Lebanon, toward the sunrise, from Baal Gad below Mount Hermon as far as the entrance to Hamath; 6 all the inhabitants of the mountains from Lebanon as far as the Brook Misrephoth, and all the Sidonians Those who say the Jews have possessed, dwelt-in the land God legally gave them are contradicting God who says here they didn't. Stop contradicting God.
And then there's the little matter of the Philistines whose territory wasn't dispossessed of them, even in the time of the great warrior King David.
God gave Abraham the land. It was legally his, then. The Jews will not possess/dwell-in the whole of that which was promised/given until the Lord comes. Only then will all be possesssed and dwelt in.
Saying Jos uses hyperbole makes a better explanation than contracting God or the facts, in my opinion.
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We all understand Biblical usage of hyperbole and prophetic poetic language. But maybe you could point out with the posts which I posted what I’m missing? The Bible writers follow the theme of Israel never obeying, and following God’s edicts. Joshua mentions this when he states for himself and his house they will follow God. All the land was theirs, all the people would be delivered into their hands by God. Yet, they had to physically go out and believe God for all of those things to happen. Remember the spies who returned saying they couldn’t take the land because giants dwelt there? Well, Caleb and Joshua, had total faith to take over, defeat the inhabitants, and possess the land. Yet, because of the failure of the people, what was legally their’s gets postponed. The role of God’s Sovereignty vs. Human Responsibility. This dynamic speaks directly to the theological tension between God's sovereignty (God declared all the land was theirs and would deliver the people) and human responsibility (they had to physically go out and believe God). If my grandparents owned property in Sicily, and it was inherited by my family here in Florida. The only way to posses the land and move squatters off the property would need me to do it physically. I could say “legally” the property was mine, that I possessed every square foot of it. Whether or not I lived there or the squatters still lived there. All of it was mine. Your idea for an eschatological land grab in the future has zero bearing on this discussion. Would you like to add a discussion on eschatology and how modern Jewish converts living today are going to fulfill an OT promise? How will they displace all those ancient groups which are mentioned in the verse? They are extinct people?