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Old 09-10-2007, 06:51 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
No one is refuting that all our deeds should be done in Jesus name ... ... nor is anyone advocating that the name should not be invoked or called upon during baptism..... clearly it's biblical ... the question is who does the invoking and for what purpose.

We should call upon the name Jesus when we pray, first come to repentance, cast out demons and drive our car ... but the power is not in the incantation of the name ... or in it's vain repetition as some have become accustomed to

the power is in Him that has given the authority and he who has the power and in everything His name represents

.... nor does someone else calling upon it effectuate remission for another believer. I don't see that in scripture ... I see the opposite in Romans.

I know that's what all of us believe .... that it's not just the name but in who possesses the power...

but when we examine soteriological issues some would make the incantation of the name by the baptizer the be all and end all to effectuating remission.

The following scriptures make evident that simple invocation is not enough ....

Acts 19:13-16: "Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded."

Matthew 10:1: "And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease."

Matthew 17:15-18
: "And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him. Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me. And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour."

One has to assume they tried to in the name of Jesus.

"Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness" (Matthew 7:21-23).

Evidently, simply knowing the name and using it ... is not God's measuring stick to salvation.


We are stating simply that invocation of the name by a third party does not mitigate salvation ...

Do I see precedent in the scriptures for this ....yes ...

do I see precedent to baptize in the power and authority given to us by Jesus ... yes ... onama ... indicates this .... in the Greek.

Is there anything wrong or damnable in baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost when we know that His name is Jesus ... no.

Do I see a 1st century pattern of baptisms performed in the name of the Lord Jesus, or Jesus Christ. to be biblical ... yes ...

Do I see dialogs of baptisms of apostles stating "I baptize you in Jesus name" ... no.

Nor will I find every sermon preached to unbelievers by Peter and Paul in Act that state that baptism is salvific ... sometimes is not even mentioned.

In each sermon they do require repentance and true belief, however.

But interestingly enough when we examine the dialog between Philip and the eunuch ... it seems important to Philip ... to know that the Eunuch confessed Jesus as the Son of God prior to immersing him ... it gives one pause ... to think that it was this confession of the name Jesus and a repentant heart that led to his salvation. Philip baptized him in this name ... invoking the authority given to him to do so ... but it wasn't the act in of itself that applied the blood for remission .... nor the incantation.
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Dan are you saying that baptism in Jesus name means ONLY the person being baptized has to call on the name of Jesus before, during of just after water baptism and that the baptizer does nothing but dunks them?
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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