Quote:
Originally Posted by pelathais
Again with Marvin Arnold's book? Do you really believe that the Albigensians were Oneness Pentecostals? That book is an embarrassment. Whatever happened to truth shall triumph?
As you "trace your heritage" back to the NT apostles you must fabricate a lot of fictional history to find your way.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelathais
I don't mean to imply that it began in 1900. I do observe that the beliefs of Apostolics in 1900 were not the exclusivistic beliefs being championed by some here today.
The direct lineal history of Acts 2:38 salvation goes back to the events of around 1900. Of course, those events themselves didn't happen in a vacuum and had their genesis in still earlier events. There is no record of the "whole package" Acts 2:38 salvation being taught and practiced from around 200 A.D. until 1913.
There were groups that practiced Jesus name baptism, and there were many groups that evidently experienced the baptism of the Holy Ghost during those years. But there is no record - none - of any group that practiced Acts 2:38, Water & Spirit salvation as is taught among OP's today.
Attempts to fabricate such a history only serve to discredit the message of Jesus name. We don't need to "prove" that something existed when it clearly did not. All we need is a little conviction that some how we've gotten the Bible into our own hands today and that we have the means to read its message. |
Theres a lot here to reply to, but I'll keep it relatively brief.
I wasn't mentioning Arnold's book as a way of defending "3-stepper" vs. one stepper doctrine. I simply mentioned the book because I found it to be an interesting read. I mostly find myself referring to the book when the issue is raised that Oneness belief is a new doctrine. Obviously you're already familiar with the book, so I guess its a moot point.
Anyway, I'm not saying the book is perfect either, but it is far from "an embarrassment" as you put it. It does show a credible trail of facts showing that there were Oneness believers, and Jesus name baptized/ Holy Ghost filled people throughout the centuries. From examining the facts, it is not a stretch at all for one to believe that there were many who were Oneness, and held to
Acts 2:38 water and spirit doctrine at the same time, much like today's UPCI.
(As a matter of fact, in support of that, there is much documentation that shows that water baptism for the remission of sins was a very commonly held belief. For example, 1) ...the Nicene-Constantinopolitan creed of 381 includes the clause "we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins"
2)...Even the documents from the Council of Trent 12 centuries later illustrated that the "water and spirit" doctrine was well known at that time . For example, this quote from one of those documents. "...are for this reason truly baptized for the remission of sins, so that in them there may be washed away by regeneration, what they have contracted by generation. "For unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (John 3:5)"
That being said...There is not enough to make an airtight case to prove they believed in the same
Acts 2:38 formulation now taught in the UPC and many similar Apostolic groups... but there isn't enough for anyone to say there
weren't any such groups either!
So for you to state or imply that Acts 2:38 salvation is a 20th century innovation, is something you can not back up with solid facts either. To do so you would have to "prove a negative" something that's just not possible in this case.
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Besides, churches back then weren't inclined to document their "Articles of faith" the way we do today, so a paper record of their precise beliefs is not something that would be available. Furthermore the RCC is known to have persecuted and destroyed the writings of many who opposed them.
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