[SDG]

--------------------------------------------------------------
For discussion
--------------------------------------------------------------

Here’s the crux of the matter (and please don't think I've formulated any conclusions based on what I am submitting for discussion):

Many philosophers, Gnostics, atheists and even some Christians believe that the commonly held beliefs of what Judas represents in mainstream Christian theology produces the following dilemma:

If Judas hadn't betrayed Jesus he would never have been able to redeem the sins of men. If Judas hadn't betrayed Jesus, Jesus would not have set us free and fulfill his purpose on earth.


Christianity teaches that Judas was a figure of evil, yet it also teaches we should thank God for sending His son to be sacrificed for our good. But doesn't this seem to suggest God was acting THROUGH Judas? And if so, why is Judas so condemned?

Also, if God knew in advance that Judas was going to betray Jesus, this suggests the whole event was predetermined. So, contrary to the Bible, Judas couldn't have been acting through his own free will, but the will of God.

So why is Judas so condemned, if, after all, HE allowed mankind to be redeemed?

http://allphilosophy.com/topic/950

1. Jesus had foreknowledge of Judas' future actions:

The bible says:

But there are some of you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. (NASB) John 6:64

2. Jesus Chose Judas. Yet, Jesus chose Judas Iscariot as a disciple anyway,

Jesus answered them, "Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?" Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him. (NASB) John 6:71

3. Jesus reveals the reason for Judas' future betrayal

Why Jesus Chose Judas. The main reason Jesus chose Judas is given to us in John 13:18-22,

I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, 'HE WHO EATS MY BREAD HAS LIFTED UP HIS HEEL AGAINST ME.' . . . He became troubled in spirit . . . and said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, that one of you will betray Me." The disciples began looking at one another, at a loss to know of which one He was speaking. (NASB) John 13:18-22
It was done so that the prophecies of old would be fulfilled.
The prophecy quoted here is Psalm 41:9. Judas was such an evil man that John 17:12 tells us that Judas is the son of perdition.

While I was with them, I was keeping them in Thy name which Thou hast given Me; and I guarded them, and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. (NASB) John 17:

Also as part of the discussion ... I submit the argument made by some that Judas did not betray Jesus in the sense that is commonly held.

Various writers explain the two opposing views held by bible scholars as follows:

Matthew 26:14-16 implies that Judas betrayed Jesus out of simple greed for the bribe money, whereas Luke 22:3 and John 13:27 suggest that the Devil entered into him and made him do it. But some biblical scholars have put forward another theory. They say that Judas wanted Jesus to lead a revolt against the Romans, and turned against him when it became clear that no revolt was planned.

But most theologians contend that Judas did act in free will and should be punished for it. And in Matthew 26:24, Jesus says "woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born." Even so, the Catholic Church has no official position on whether Judas was punished. However, In Dante's Inferno he is condemned to the lowest circle of Hell, doomed to be chewed for eternity in the mouths of the triple-headed Satan.

Yet some people still argue that Judas shouldn't be blamed. Some scholars have suggested that he was merely the negotiator in a secret prearranged surrender, and that his later portrayal as a traitor is a historical distortion. Variations on this idea were put forward in the book The Passover Plot by Hugh J. Schonfield, and also in the controversial film The Last Temptation of Christ.

This idea surfaced again with the discovery of an ancient copy of a previously lost "Gospel of Judas". According to some scholars, this gospel suggests that Jesus showed special favor to Judas and gave him secret revelations. Later Jesus told him about the need for a betrayal and asked him to take the blame for it. But the only existing copy of this gospel is badly damaged, and much guesswork is involved in determining exactly what it says. As a result, questions have arisen as to how it really depicts Judas. In any case, because it probably wasn't written until the second century, most scholars doubt that it is a reliable source of information.
http://www.gospel-mysteries.net/judas-iscariot.html

Another writer brings to the table that the word betray is a mistranslation of the Greek text

Author William Klassen suggests that Judas did not betray Jesus at all. 5 He suggests that the word "betrayal" found throughout English versions of the Bible is a mistranslation of the Greek word "paradidomi." An accurate translation would be "handed over."

Klassen suggests that Judas was only planning to give Jesus over to the Jewish authorities so that they could evaluate his claims. This theory cannot account for the word translated as "traitor" in Luke 6:16. The "traitor" could have been a mistake by the author of Luke, or a copyist's error.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/gospj3.htm

In Spanish, our bibles don't use the English word betray but rather "to hand over" as indicated by the Greek word paradidomi

Simón el cananita y Judas Iscariote, quien le entregó

-----------------------------------
Questions
-----------------------------------

And the questions I bring, not pretending to have all the answers, ... before you are:

1. If the Judas' role in the Gospels was pre-ordained prophetically ... was it God's will for Judas to hand Jesus over? How does one reconcile this with free will?

2. If so, can it be argued that Jesus needed Judas? If so, how does one reconcile this with condemning Judas for this act that appears to be divinely pre-ordained?

3. Is our characterization of Judas fair when we vilify him as the one who betrayed Christ? Did not Peter betray him also? As did all those who were responsible for his crucifixion, including us, betray him? Or do you think is he fairly portrayed by most of Christianity?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------