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Old 09-06-2008, 08:00 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Just a reminder:
Quote:
First a presupposition: Remission and Forgiveness is the same thing, they come from the same Greek word. This is not to say a Greek word cannot have a variety of meanings, but the meanings of "aphesis" are all very similar: release, pardon, cancellation, forgiveness, remission and the majority of the time are linked with sin. (I would like to see someone present a contrary opinion with scriptural proof.)
And another reminder: without faith in Christ and repentance preceding, water baptism doesn't amount to anything.

Quote:
Premise 1) Sins are remitted by the applied blood of Jesus Christ.
Remission/forgiveness of sin by God is Biblically a removal of sin and is likened to a washing, a cleansing, a blotting out, and a circumcision.

Where does the Bible teach that remission/forgiveness is a removal of sin?

Romans 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. NASB

Colossians 2:11-13 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

There is a circumcision of the Spirit (made without hands) which puts off the body of the sins of the flesh and it happens at water baptism where we are figuratively "buried". This act causes the forgiveness of our trespasses.

Romans 6:3-6 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Paul restates his same assertion that baptism removes sin in Romans 6. The first few verses 3-5 are figurative speech. Our baptism is liken to Christ's burial in which we are planted in the LIKENESS of Christ's death. But it is verse 6 in which Paul brings out once again that there is a "body of sin" that must be destroyed. This body of sin is destroyed by repentance and water baptism. From Colossians we know the body of sin is "put off" by the circumcision made without hands in water baptism (burial) and in this passage in Romans, the body of sin is destroyed or done away with in the context of baptism and "our old self was crucified with Him"...ie: repentance. We die to sin at repentance and baptism removes the body of sin from our hearts...totally destroying sin in our lives at that point.

Romans 6:6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

Another indication that remission involves a removal is found by the reference to "washing" as part of our salvation. This washing involves the name of Jesus and the Spirit of God and is connected to the new birth (regeneration). We can't be saved or justified without being forgiven of our sins. That was the whole purpose of Christ going to the cross...to be the lamb of God which takes away the sins of the whole world by His shed blood.


1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;




The blood of Jesus Christ remits sin.

1 John 1:7 ..the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Revelation 1:5....Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Revelation 7:14 .... These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.




The blood of Jesus Christ is literally applied to our conscience where the removal of sins takes place.


Both verses teach that our hearts/consciences are cleansed by the blood of Christ... IOW the blood is applied to our hearts and cleanses/purges our sins. It's not figurative but a real Spiritual experience. And this event happens when we are baptized in Jesus name. That was my point by quoting those verses.

Heb 9:13-14 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works (sins) to serve the living God?

Heb 10:19-22 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water




Dan, that was my proof of premise #1. I'll deal with premise # 2 in another post. You have to prove either premise to be invalid (unscriptural) to refute my conclusion, because I'm pretty certain my argument is sound.

Premise 1)Sins are remitted by the applied blood of Jesus Christ.

Premise 2) Remission of sins takes place at water baptism in Jesus name.

Conclusion: Therefore, the blood of Christ is applied at water baptism.
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