[theoldpaths]

Originally Posted by 1399

The only way to reconcile Romans 10: 4 - 21 and Acts 2: 38 - 42 is to equate salvation with believing-- a faith that leads one to the proper Biblical response.

The proper Biblical response is to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

The infilling of the Holy Ghost, with the evidence of speaking in tongues, is not a prerequisite for Biblical salvation. It was never presented in scripture as so.

First of all, the Holy Ghost is the Promise from God to all those who believe on Him.

Salvation is equated with believing many, many times in the New Testament.

Salvation is not equated with speaking in tongues.

If Cornelius had died before experiencing the infilling of the Holy Ghost, would he have gone to hell?

The 3 stepper answer would have to be, "Yes, Cornelius would have gone to hell."

However, it is impossible for me to justify such an answer with scripture.

Acts 13:39 NIV
Through Him (Jesus Christ) everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law.

Acts 13:48 NIV
When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the Word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

Romans 4: 9 -12 has played a role in my understanding of salvation.

There is more.

But I have a question. Ron Harvey made a ref to some rule where what you see happen in scripture does not have to happen every time in order for a specific concept to be true.

Maybe you can elaborate on that for me-- when I asked him about it, he never responded.

Is there more than one concept in scripture where this is true?

The only way to reconcile Romans 10: 4 - 21 and Acts 2: 38 - 42 is to equate salvation with believing-- a faith that leads one to the proper Biblical response.

In both of the scriptures that you quote above, you have to realize that Paul was speaking to 2 different groups of people. In Acts the context was to people who were lost, heard his preaching, and were convicted of their sins; just ripe for picking. In Romans, Paul was writing to people who were already saved. Some of his concern for the church at Rome as well as other Gentile churches that he wrote epistles to was that the Gentiles were worried about not keeping the law. Paul many times contrasted the 2 belief systems - 1 being the keeping of the OT law of God and the other being faith in Christ. He wanted to encourage them, that in the NT salvation was only through the belief system of faith in Christ as opposed to faith in the original belief system of the OT law of God. It all begins by getting them to believe that it is okay to forsake those things that truly God did once require and that was the only way to do it at one point and that if you didn't, you were lost. And getting them to believe that they could turn to the one and only belief system that God now accepts in the NT dispensation - the belief system called - faith in Christ. Faith in Christ is unto salvation - it is not salvation all by itself, but it is unto salvation.

The infilling of the Holy Ghost, with the evidence of speaking in tongues, is not a prerequisite for Biblical salvation. It was never presented in scripture as so.


This statement mixes in 2 thoughts - 1 being the infilling of the Holy Ghost and 2 being what is the evidence that once has received the infilling of the HOly Ghost.

I suspect that we can both agree that being filled with the Holy Ghost is a NT salvation requirement because...

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Perhaps what some have a problem with is what is the evidence that one has indeed rec'd the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Why did Jesus in John 3:8 above compare receiving the Spirit to being like the wind? Why would He even make that statement? Could it be so that we would have a scripture that shows how one can know whether or not they have rec'd the Holy Ghost or not?

Jesus said that every single one that is born of the Spirit is like the wind, you don't know where its coming from or where its going, but you hear the sound thereof. A sound will accompany every single one that is born of the Spirit and in Acts that sound was tongues.

How did the Jews know in Acts 10 that the Gentiles had rec'd the Holy Ghost?

Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

In Acts 10, Peter said that the Gentiles had rec'd the HOly Ghost just like the Jews did. In Acts 11, Peter explained that the Gentiles had rec'd the Holy Ghost just like they did in the beginning. And in Acts 15, Peter said that the Gentiles had rec'd the Holy Ghost as he did unto them. They knew they had rec'd the Holy Ghost because it happened to them just like it did to the Jews in Acts 2.

One of the signs that Jesus said would follow them that believe is that they shall speak with new tongues. Paul in 1 Cor 14 said that tongues were a sign not to believers but to unbelievers. Peter in Acts 15 said...

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

God bare them witness that they did really truly believe how? By giving them the Holy Ghost even as he did unto the Jews. God purified their hearts by faith how? How did God put no difference between the Jews who believed and received the Holy Ghost speaking with other tongues and the Gentiles? By giving them the Holy Ghost just like he did to the Jews - speaking with other tongues.

Paul here...

1Co 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Quotes from Isaiah 28:11-2...

Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

Jesus said - Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Jesus is the giver of rest and Jesus is the baptizer of the Holy Ghost...

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

The baptism of the Holy Ghost that Jesus gives is the rest and the refreshing that is evidenced by the sound of speaking with other tongues and can also include stammering lips. Jesus and Paul both called it a sign. What is it a sign of? It is the initial sign that someone had rec'd the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Every Christian church should have this sign to unbelievers and if they don't, then unbelievers should go find another church.

If Cornelius had died before experiencing the infilling of the Holy Ghost, would he have gone to hell?


Let's let the scripture answer this question for us...

Angel to Cornelius - Acts 10:5 And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter: 6 He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.

Peter explaining after-the-fact - Acts 11:13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

According to scripture, if Cornelius would have died before Peter got to him, he would NOT have been saved even though he feared God will all his household, gave much alms, and prayed to God always.