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Originally Posted by n david
I don't agree with outward/dress standards being labeled as holiness and scriptural ... but I see nothing wrong with an organization taking a stand and stating that those licensed and endorsed by the organization should either follow and implement their requirements or leave.
There are a lot of other organizations, religious and secular, that require this as well.
Personally, speaking as one who was born and raised UPC and now am independent/non-denominational, I think it's ridiculous that people would remain with an organization they don't agree with and complain about.
If you don't like it and can't agree, then just leave. It'll save you and others a headache.
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We mostly agree on every point ... I too believe these standards are not bible and believe organizations have the right to require members of certain things.
I too withdrew as a matter of conscience ... at about the time when the hypocrisy of a TV ministry resolution was at its apex .... and men bickered over political influence while 90% of its members owned a TV or a TV-ready device .... despite the requirement not to own one and to preach and teach against it.
I think the inconsistency of an organization's policy, whether secular or religous, is a legitimate topic of discussion, however. As well as the struggle in many of these organizations for local entities to keep their autonomy.
Frankly, my biggest beef with these type of demands is that we find men, like this DS, who say that local pastors still have the authority and right to self-govern but expects those used in a UPCI church as lay ministry "reflect the values of the UPCI".
Has he confused his values for the org's?
First, unless the church is affiliated,
only the pastor is UPCI ... and no policy can be furnished requiring a pastor to do so ... other than an affirmation statement that says he will teach and preach the following:
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Godly living should characterize the life of every child of the Lord, and we should live according to the pattern and example given in the Word of God. "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world" (Titus 2:11-12). "For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously" (I Peter 2:21-23).
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).
"But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (I Peter 1:15-19).
We wholeheartedly disapprove of our people indulging in any activities which are not conducive to good Christianity and godly living, such as theaters, dances, mixed bathing or swimming, women cutting their hair, make-up, any apparel that immodestly exposes the body, all worldly sports and amusements, and unwholesome radio programs and music. Furthermore, because of the display of all these evils on television, we disapprove of any of our people having television sets in their homes. We admonish all of our people to refrain from any of these practices in the interest of spiritual progress and the soon coming of the Lord for His church.
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Notice .... Ornamental or functional jewelry, is not stipulated.
Clothing requiring gender distinction ... pants on a woman, kilt on a man, not stipulated or prohibited. But this DS seemingly has made these requirements ... org-wide.
While none of these prohibitions, as presented by this DS, falls under "requirement" or "policy"... this DS and board would force an interpretation of Scripture on its peers.
IMO ... This then becomes more of an issue of local church governance vs. centralization than it does about holiness or following the rules of an org.
Meanwhile, this DS did not address the greatest violation of UPCI holiness policy ... Television. Or the ever ambiguous "all worldy sports and amusements"?
The question begs to be asked ... why not ...?
It is clearly spelled out in the AOF, in a minister's application and requirements ... and yet a minister must be lectured about a laundry list of items he is not compelled to comply to while being asked cordially to leave?
Either, the manual, specifically the AOF, needs to be re-written with these "values" more clearly specified and/OR fully enforced as is... or overzealous boards and DS' need to step off on issues that ARE NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS.
Imagine asking the television owners to leave.