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Originally Posted by Sam
There are differences of opinion as to when the death, burial, and resurrection of a Christian happens. Many OP's believe that we die to sin when we repent. Then, when we are baptized we are buried with him and placed into His death. The Holy Ghost Baptism is considered the spiritual resurrection when we rise to walk in newness of life. A couple problems with this are that:
1. Some people repent but are never immersed or never receive the Holy Ghost Baptism.
2. If water baptism puts us into Christ's death, our salvation is dependent upon someone else who physically baptizes us.
3. Many people receive the Holy Ghost Baptism (resurrection) but are never baptized by immersion, or, if baptized by immersion are not baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. So, they have died (repented) and have been resurrected (Holy Ghost Baptism) but never buried properly.
Bro Blume believes (if I understand what he has written) that the death, burial, and resurrection experience happens all at once at water baptism. That does away with the question of people who have been resurrected but never buried.
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I am not dogmatic about that, since
Col 2:12 may mean baptism is the death and burial, and a subsequent faith in God's operation is the resurrection. Or it may mean that since we rise when we come forth out of baptism, we are resurrecting. At any rate, this brings up the contrast you make below about baptism in
Romans 6. I believe it is involved with water baptism, since that is what water baptism is meant to show, anyway.
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Others believe that the death, burial, and resurrection happen when the person is justified by faith. Some think that the baptism spoken of in Romans chapter 6 is not water baptism. Some believe Romans 6 speaks of an operation of the Holy Spirit that happens at justification/salvation/regeneration. At the moment a person accepts Jesus as Savior, he is placed/baptized by the Spirit into Christ or into the Body of Christ. So, he is united with Christ in death, burial, and resurrection.
When you read Romans 6, just replace the word "baptized" with "placed" and realize it is not speaking of literal water baptism but of an operation of the Spirit.This is what is taught by John MacArthur in his study Bible.
notes from the MacArthur Bible:
6:3 baptized into Christ Jesus. This does not refer to water baptism. Paul is actually using the word "baptized" in a metaphorical sense, as we might in saying someone was immersed in his work, or underwent his baptism of fire when experiencing some trouble. All Christians have, by placing saving faith in Him, been spiritually immersed into the person of Christ, that is, united and identified with Him (cf 1 Cor 6:17 10:2; Gal 3:27; 1 Pet 3:21; 1 John 1:3...). Certainly water baptism pictures this reality, which is the purpose --to show the transformation of the justified. into His death. This means that immersion or identification is specifically with Christ's death and resurrection....
6:4 buried with Him. Since we are united by faith with Him, as baptism symbolizes, His death and burial become ours. newness of life. This is true, if, in Christ we died and were buried with Him, we have also been united with Him in His resurrection life. There is a new quality and character to our lives, a new principle of life. This speaks of the believer's regeneration (cf. Ezek 36:26; 2 Cor 5:17; Ga;6:15; Eph 4:24). Whereas sin describes the old life, righteousness describes the new.
this is from pages 1702 and 1703 of The MacArthur Study Bible copyright 1997
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I heard the idea that baptism in
Romans 6 is "waterless", but tend to disagree. When I see water baptism demanded so stringently in the Acts of the apostles, I see it with the understanding of
Romans 6's baptism. This shows us that the literal water is not the burial, although Paul is speaking of this burial while being water baptized, since
Romans 6 teaches we were buried with Christ IN HIS TOMB IN WHICH HE WAS BURIED 2000 years ago. So why would we think the water is our actual burial. For some reason God demands physical object lessons in order to assist our faith, as in communion supper.
When we think of water baptism in the way Paul taught
Romans 6's baptism into His death, then water baptism is much more meaningful and better understood. Otherwise it is an empty ritual without meaning which is why people disregard it so much.
John the baptist associated water baptism with death when he said the axe is laid to the root of the trees. John did that before Christ died, but he idea of death was certainly involved. This ties with Christ's death in
Romans 6, and that is why those baptized by John had to be rebaptized in Jesus' name since Christ DIED.