[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by covey

John 3:8 equates being born of the Spirit is integral to our salvation. The issue is not that you need to speak in tongues to be saved. the issue is: you will speak in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance when you receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

The best Scriptural evidence of this being true comes from Jesus - John 3:8 "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

The key to this verse is what Jesus tells Nicodemus will happen when someone is born of the Spirit. The keyword is "SOUND": "even though we cannot see the wind, we hear the sound of its presence". The same thing will happen when someone (EVERYONE) is born of the Spirit "you will not see the Spirit, but you will hear the SOUND of the presence of Spirit. According to the book of Acts, the sound that we hear when anyone is baptized with the Holy Spirit is "speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance".

The reason "SOUND" is the keyword is this: The Greek word in this verse is defined one way for the sound of inanimate objects and another for an animate object. The animate object of the verses is "man". The sound that everyone born of the Spirit comes from the tongue / speech. This fact leaves no doubt as to what Jesus meant "Every one born of the Spirit will speak in tongues as the "Spirit" gives the utterance".

The Greek word in John 3:8 is "phōnē". It is defined as follows:

1) a sound, a tone
A) of inanimate things, as musical instruments
2) a voice
A) of the sound of uttered words
3) speech
A) of a language, tongue

As you can see, the sound lets us know the Spirit is present in EVERYONE who is born of the Spirit, is the sound that comes from the tongue / speech.

It is true, EVERYONE who is born (baptized with) of the Spirit will hear the sound of the presence of the holy Spirit by speaking in tongues as the SPIRIT gives the utterance.

Hello Covey, thank you for joining the discussion. I have addressed this "sound" discussion earlier in the thread, but I know it is cumbersome to read through all of it.

Just to clarify and make sure we are both on the same page, you might want to read John 3 again just to refresh your memory. John 3 has the famous verse in it, remember this one?

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Jesus is talking about believing all through this chapter. He that believeth will not be condemned.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Nowhere in John 3 did Jesus mention anything about speaking in tongues. One must "hop around" to try to make the “sound” concept work.

What Jesus did mention, time and time again in this chapter, was believing. And we can find many scriptures to parallel believing with salvation, and being born again. In fact, the Apostle Paul himself was baptized, and born again, saved, without any record of him speaking in tongues.

Now, don't leave here thinking that I don't believe in speaking in tongues, because I do.

The concept I am coming against, is the one of trying to build a case that salvation cannot happen or begin until one speaks in tongues, with nary a scripture to support that. In contrast, many, many scriptures state salvation begins with believing/repentance/baptism.

Here's a few... there's many more...

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

And John here in this scripture also equates believing with the spirit:

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

So from all indications in this chapter, and with the weight of NT scriptures, we are told that the spirit is present upon believing, and once one has believed, and been baptized, the Lord is then able to gift and pour out the full measure of His spirit into that heart, most often noted with the sign of speaking in tongues.