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Old 02-09-2017, 11:33 AM
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KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2010
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Re: Receiving The Holy Spirit & Speaking In Tongue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Faith is one of the gifts listed as a separate gift. So, "If one doesn't have faith will one be lost?"

Ponder that a moment before going forward.
Who ever said that you had to have a GIFT to be saved? I certainly didn't. Mark 16:16 is the passage that has been discussed throughout this thread , and nowhere here does it say you must have a GIFT to be saved. Gifting could also be considered a sign that follows.

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
That is the very definition of "Pentecostal", that being filled with the Spirit is signified initially by speaking in tongues. Anyone who disagrees with that premise is by definition non-Pentecostal. Apostolics are Pentecostal in that we agree with the premise.
Nowhere in scripture are the apostles called Pentecostals, are they? That is a recent definition, not scripture. The only scriptural reference we know is that believers were first known as Christians.

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.


Acts 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.


1 Peter 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
1. Pentecostal does not = "speaking in tongues." Pentecostal DOES = "speaking in tongues is the initial evidence of the baptism with the Holy Ghost."
And where is that exactly found, scripture and verse please!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
2. Your question as presented has become "must you have the gift of tongues to be saved". Earlier you were asking along the lines of "must you speak in tongues in order to get saved". In both cases the questions would be answered "No" by EVERY APOSTOLIC ON EARTH however you would take the answer to mean "a person can be saved without ever having spoken in tongues" which is what would NOT be meant by a "no answer".
You sound very confused. In fact, your very words are convoluted. Answering a no, but in reality, really a yes. Your statement "Every Apostolic on earth would say no" is not reality at all. I'm not sure what brand of OP you have been around, but it is certainly not the ones I have been. Like you, many won't outright come out and say you can't be saved without speaking in tongues, yet their actions belie their words. They may not "say" it, but it is certainly the end result of their teachings, which is that you are most certainly not saved if you haven't spoken in tongues, in traditional OP circles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Questions cannot be answered unless the questioner and the answerer use the same terms the same way.

I noticed you avoided my question to you about faith, which exposed clearly the error of your reasoning on this subject.
I asked a question first, which you avoided. You answered (thank you!), I have responded, and it is explained in the above quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Please don't trow me in dat briar patch, Br'er Fox...
lol

You say tongues is a gift, and not all speak with tongues per Paul.

But he ALSO listed faith as one of those separate gifts. YOUR REASONING must conclude that one can be saved without having faith.
See above where I also addressed that red herring you threw out. It is a meaningless rabbit trail.
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