If the Abrahamic Covenant was entered into by

#1 07-14-2008, 05:27 PM

If the Abrahamic Covenant, which was a type of our salvation was entered into by male circumcision.. then how did females qualify to be part of the Covenant with God?

U376977 · #2 07-14-2008, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn

If the Abrahamic Covenant, which was a type of our salvation was entered into by male circumcision.. then how did females qualify to be part of the Covenant with God?

I think your premise is incorrect. The circumcision was only a sign of their participation in the covenant. If you read Ex. 19-21 you find that God gave the terms of the covenant--it was presented to Moses, Aaron, Nadab and Abihau (forgive my spelling on the last two names) and the 70 elders--- counting God that would be 75 who had the covenant meal. The 74 represented the whole nation of Israel. I have used this as a oneness verse. There was 1 God who made this covenant, not the Trinity.
Anyway after that, the whole nation was part of the covenant by birth. This explains why Moses almost lost his life by not keeping circumcision. It was necessary for the covenant as a sign of participation.

Scott Hutchinson · #3 07-14-2008, 06:48 PM

Somebody told me if a Jewish woman wanted to retain her identity as a Jewish woman she must marry a circumcised Jewish male,I don't know if this is true or not though.
I understand circumcision was a sign of the covenant God made with Abraham.

#4 07-14-2008, 07:51 PM

Actually, if you were not circumcised you were not part of the Covenant...... this was a type of the cutting away of the flesh in sanctification.... it was indeed a type and shadow.... However, the question remains... could a Jewish woman only be saved by either embracing her Father or her Husband and coming into the Covenant through either of these men?

SDG · #5 07-14-2008, 07:55 PM

1. Circumcision is a sign not the means of the convenant.

2. Abraham is counted as righteous 14 years by his faith before taking this sign ... years after.

3. This sign was hidden from plain sight. Who was to know who was or wasn't. As my pastor preached 2 weeks ago ... the witness of Abe's circumcision was his favor and blessings.

U376977 · #6 07-14-2008, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

1. Circumcision is a sign not the means of the convenant.

2. Abraham is counted as righteous 14 years by his faith before taking this sign ... years after.

3. This sign was hidden from plain sight. Who was to know who was or wasn't. As my pastor preached 2 weeks ago ... the witness of Abe's circumcision was his favor and blessings.

Exactly.

U376977 · #7 07-14-2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn

Actually, if you were not circumcised you were not part of the Covenant...... this was a type of the cutting away of the flesh in sanctification.... it was indeed a type and shadow.... However, the question remains... could a Jewish woman only be saved by either embracing her Father or her Husband and coming into the Covenant through either of these men?

Scripture?

#8 07-14-2008, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by U376977

Scripture?

Ok.. so if this was the mans sign what sign was given to the woman?

#9 07-14-2008, 08:20 PM

For 3,500 years, the covenant of circumcision (brit mila) has been the doorway through which a male Jewish child enters into the faith of his forefathers and affirms his Jewish identity. Circumcision is the physical evidence of this covenant.

This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised. And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you. And every male among you who is eight days old shall be circumcised throughout your generations. (Genesis 17:10–12)

The more accurate word for sign here is SEAL... the circumcision is the SEAL of the COVENANT.... and if women could not be circumcised how did they enter into this Covenant?

U376977 · #10 07-14-2008, 08:35 PM

Again, I think your premise is wrong. The talmed taught, I could look up the reference if you really were to challenge it, but I think you will take my word for it, that to recite the shema was to "take on the yoke of the kingdom of G-d." Jewish thought is purely racial, all Jews are "saved." Just because they are Jews.
Here is how I know this. I was concerned several years ago, about how they are saved? I reasoned that the sacrifice "rolled their sins forward for a year." If there is no sacrifice then there is no salvation, was my thought. Yours is if there is no circumcision then there is no salvation. Well I searched and searched and found the talmud quote. Then I had a conversation with a orthodox rabbi, he told me I was all wrong that sacrifice was an obediance and dedication that they would one day practice again, but their right to inherit the "world to come" was theirs by birth.