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06-11-2013, 08:45 AM
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Resident PeaceMaker
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Former Pastors And Saints.
Why is it in certain OP groups that a former pastor should have no dealings with former church members ? Suppose a Elderly man retires from pastoring and has a cup of coffee with former church members does he really need permission from the new pastor to do so ?
It is always wrong for former pastors to have dealings with saints they used to pastor ?
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People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
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06-11-2013, 08:54 AM
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Re: Former Pastors And Saints.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson
Why is it in certain OP groups that a former pastor should have no dealings with former church members ? Suppose a Elderly man retires from pastoring and has a cup of coffee with former church members does he really need permission from the new pastor to do so ?
It is always wrong for former pastors to have dealings with saints they used to pastor ?
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In a perfect world there should be no problem with the scenario you describe......however, the "rule" that a former pastor should have no dealings with the members, was put in place because of unethical ministers who have left churches and then tried to take/influence as many of the members as they could to leave and go with them or somewhere else.
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06-11-2013, 08:58 AM
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Resident PeaceMaker
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Re: Former Pastors And Saints.
I understand there are unethical ministers and such but should every case be treated the same ? I'm not trying to cause contention I'm just wondering.
__________________
People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
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06-11-2013, 10:17 AM
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Re: Former Pastors And Saints.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bishoph
In a perfect world there should be no problem with the scenario you describe......however, the "rule" that a former pastor should have no dealings with the members, was put in place because of unethical ministers who have left churches and then tried to take/influence as many of the members as they could to leave and go with them or somewhere else.
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Ok...question.
Why is it unethical to "proselytize" siants? It seems to me that the idea itself only holds water if you consider the people YOUR saints rather than GODS saints. If we are GODS and not a certain Pastors, then its all the same field for grazing regardless of what Pastor puts his name on the building we attend. Further, it seems our hatred of "stealing saints" only applies one way. Pastors don't seem to mind if they are the one stealing saints from the more "liberal" Apostolic church across town, or if they take from the local Baptist or Methodist. It's only unethical apparently if someone gets someone to leave our assembly to join another.
Didn't Paul say we shouldn't look at ourselves as being of John or of Paul, but rather of CHRIST?
Of course, my gut says this is another matter of it being "unethical" because it can hurt the tithe/offering bucket of the Pastor that is being left for another. Bless God...don't go messing with the man of gods money!
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06-11-2013, 10:22 AM
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On the road less traveled
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Re: Former Pastors And Saints.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitehawk013
Ok...question.
Why is it unethical to "proselytize" siants? It seems to me that the idea itself only holds water if you consider the people YOUR saints rather than GODS saints. If we are GODS and not a certain Pastors, then its all the same field for grazing regardless of what Pastor puts his name on the building we attend. Further, it seems our hatred of "stealing saints" only applies one way. Pastors don't seem to mind if they are the one stealing saints from the more "liberal" Apostolic church across town, or if they take from the local Baptist or Methodist. It's only unethical apparently if someone gets someone to leave our assembly to join another.
Didn't Paul say we shouldn't look at ourselves as being of John or of Paul, but rather of CHRIST?
Of course, my gut says this is another matter of it being "unethical" because it can hurt the tithe/offering bucket of the Pastor that is being left for another. Bless God...don't go messing with the man of gods money!
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My thoughts exactly. You said it very well.
The problem is that men are worried about the $$ more than anything and they are concerned more about building their own kingdom, instead of just being a part of the great kingdom of the Lord.
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06-11-2013, 10:49 AM
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Re: Former Pastors And Saints.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitehawk013
Ok...question.
Why is it unethical to "proselytize" siants? It seems to me that the idea itself only holds water if you consider the people YOUR saints rather than GODS saints. If we are GODS and not a certain Pastors, then its all the same field for grazing regardless of what Pastor puts his name on the building we attend. Further, it seems our hatred of "stealing saints" only applies one way. Pastors don't seem to mind if they are the one stealing saints from the more "liberal" Apostolic church across town, or if they take from the local Baptist or Methodist. It's only unethical apparently if someone gets someone to leave our assembly to join another.
Didn't Paul say we shouldn't look at ourselves as being of John or of Paul, but rather of CHRIST?
Of course, my gut says this is another matter of it being "unethical" because it can hurt the tithe/offering bucket of the Pastor that is being left for another. Bless God...don't go messing with the man of gods money!
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I believe you are half right. I absolutely believe it is unethical for a pastor to try and talk the saints of another church to leave that church and come to his church.
But at the same time I think it is disgraceful that a lot of pastor's treat saints as possessions and are so controlling and desirous of the tithe that they do not allow saints who desire or feel led to leave to go to another church to do so.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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06-11-2013, 10:52 AM
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Resident PeaceMaker
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Jackson,AL.
Posts: 16,548
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Re: Former Pastors And Saints.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
I believe you are half right. I absolutely believe it is unethical for a pastor to try and talk the saints of another church to leave that church and come to his church.
But at the same time I think it is disgraceful that a lot of pastor's treat saints as possessions and are so controlling and desirous of the tithe that they do not allow saints who desire or feel led to leave to go to another church to do so.
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It seems a balance is needed.Some cases a good man resigns and I understand he is to get permission to visit with his former members.
__________________
People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
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06-11-2013, 11:01 AM
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Re: Former Pastors And Saints.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson
It seems a balance is needed.Some cases a good man resigns and I understand he is to get permission to visit with his former members.
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Old time Pentecost's solutions to almost any problem / issue is to make harsh, broad rules and that was one of them.
I agree that it should be on a case by case basis. If the problem is so pervasive that rule has to be in place it is a sad statement on the ethics and morality of Pentecostal preachers in general.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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06-11-2013, 11:05 AM
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Location: Texas
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Re: Former Pastors And Saints.
Whoa! Why is it always the preacher who is considered to be unethical? I have dealt with some unethical "saints" in this journey. What my wife and I make from the church is less than what many in the church make, and this is by our own choice.
Back to the unethical part! Let's look at some of the saints that leave a church. Why is it when some start missing and a caring pastor calls to check on them they won't even answer their phone? And it's not because I'm going to chew them out. That's something I don't want done to me and I don't do it to the saints. There are some caring pastors and it's not fair to lump all of them together in derision. 
My point is it's not always a money factor to all pastors. I don't control the money and the money doesn't control me! Soooo.... get over it! 
Been Thinkin
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"From the time you're born, 'til you ride in the hearse, there ain't nothing bad that couldn't be worse!"
LIFE: Some days you're the dog and some days you're the hydrant! 
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06-11-2013, 11:15 AM
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Resident PeaceMaker
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Jackson,AL.
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Re: Former Pastors And Saints.
Yes there is unetchical saints and I certainly did not wish this thread to turn in Pastor bashing as this was not my intention.
__________________
People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
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