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Old 02-14-2018, 01:12 PM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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The Tree of Life

In Genesis 2 the family was created and was without sin. God’s plan was that humans would populate the earth. But in Genesis 3, they rebelled and were cast out of the Garden and lost access to the tree of life.

In Romans 5 we are told that because of Adams transgression, death reigned from Adam to Moses. Does this mean that until the Law (which was our school master to lead us to Christ) hardly anyone was saved?

Somehow, we have inherited a sinful nature, so that when one reaches the age of accountability they must choose Christ or face wrath. How is it that a precious newborn baby is born in sin?

In Revelation 22, the tree of life is back, for the healing of the nations. But it’s not the same as being returned to the Garden because Matthew 22 says “for in the resurrection, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage.”

It seems that there will be no more procreation/children after this point. We are not returned to our original state, something is different. It seems we will be androgynous?

Wallace Stevens said, “death is the mother of beauty.” The fragile and transitory nature of life makes it so very precious.

It was Jesus’ death and shedding of blood that gives meaning and beauty to our lives. It seems so odd to me to think that after the resurrection we will be frozen in eternity, no growth, no change, no epic struggle.
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:10 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: The Tree of Life

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
In Genesis 2 the family was created and was without sin. God’s plan was that humans would populate the earth. But in Genesis 3, they rebelled and were cast out of the Garden and lost access to the tree of life.

In Romans 5 we are told that because of Adams transgression, death reigned from Adam to Moses. Does this mean that until the Law (which was our school master to lead us to Christ) hardly anyone was saved?
I believe there was a line of godly people from Seth to Noah. After Noah's time the knowledge of God was maintained through Shem but Shem's sons don't appear to be too godly. I say that because the consensus is that Abraham was an idolater when he was first called. Perhaps a syncretistic, maybe? From Abraham down through the children of Israel (most of whom were idolatrous as well throughout their history) until Christ. So yes, few were in relationship with God. Melchizedek indicates there may have been a few here and there who served the true God in the ocean of pagan, corrupted humanity.

Quote:
Somehow, we have inherited a sinful nature, so that when one reaches the age of accountability they must choose Christ or face wrath. How is it that a precious newborn baby is born in sin?
Inherited sinful nature is a doctrine of catholicism, inherited from the gnostics. "Born in sin" is a Pharisaic concept imported into catholicism via the same gnostics.

Quote:
In Revelation 22, the tree of life is back, for the healing of the nations. But it’s not the same as being returned to the Garden because Matthew 22 says “for in the resurrection, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage.”

It seems that there will be no more procreation/children after this point. We are not returned to our original state, something is different. It seems we will be androgynous?

Wallace Stevens said, “death is the mother of beauty.” The fragile and transitory nature of life makes it so very precious.

It was Jesus’ death and shedding of blood that gives meaning and beauty to our lives. It seems so odd to me to think that after the resurrection we will be frozen in eternity, no growth, no change, no epic struggle.
I think we will be quite busy after the resurrection. Doing what? I don't know. But if God is infinite, and we are to grow in the grace and knowledge of God, then our growth must also be infinite and thus everlastingly continuous.

It wouldn't make sense for eternal glory to be subpar compared to this life.
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:12 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: The Tree of Life

When I was in kindergarten I had no concept of what adult life would actually be like...
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:40 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: The Tree of Life

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
In Genesis 2 the family was created and was without sin. God’s plan was that humans would populate the earth. But in Genesis 3, they rebelled and were cast out of the Garden and lost access to the tree of life.

In Romans 5 we are told that because of Adams transgression, death reigned from Adam to Moses. Does this mean that until the Law (which was our school master to lead us to Christ) hardly anyone was saved?
Interesting question, I don't know. I'll have to ponder that.

Quote:
Somehow, we have inherited a sinful nature, so that when one reaches the age of accountability they must choose Christ or face wrath. How is it that a precious newborn baby is born in sin?
I can only share what I believe. First, we're a trichotomy:
1.) Body (soma) - Physical, biological, part of our nature through which we relate to the physical world through the five senses.
2.) Soul (psuche) - The mind, the seat of reason, will, emotion, and intention.
3.) Spirit (pneuma) - The breath of life, or "living essence", the seat of spirituality, spiritual predisposition, and intuition. It is the part of us that relates to things that are spiritual.
We are fallen beings. Our bodies, our flesh, is fallen. The body is subject to genetic issues, biological and hormonal compulsions, sickness, disease, pain, suffering, and even death. It desires nothing but comfort, pleasure, to be full, ease, etc. We are born with this body of death. It is a monstrosity. From the beginning we don't have to teach a toddler to lie, steal, hit, rebel, scream, or lash out. That is because the newly formed soul (psuche, from which we get the word psyche, for mind) is already at work to please the flesh. And so a newborn is inherently sinful and sin will manifest as it gets older.

One must be born of the spirit. The spirit must be regenerated. Once this occurs, the spirit (or inner man) partakes in the divine nature. This causes a tug-of-war, so to speak, between the spirit and the flesh... leaving the soul (the seat of our will) in the middle. If we renew the mind through the washing of the Word through prayer and study, we can conform our will and intentions to the Scriptures, increasing our ability to choose to side with the indwelling new nature of the spirit that is present through the abiding Holy Spirit.

This fallen state of the flesh is like a disease. We can keep it's symptoms in remission and keep on top of our inclinations and proclivities through the new nature provided by the indwelling Holy Spirit... or we can allow it to flare up and lead us down the path to Hell.

Everyone has this disease, even if we hide the symptoms well. Upon death, we'll be free of it. And upon resurrection we will be reunited with our bodies, only they will now be regenerated through glorification. No sin nature will remain.

Quote:
In Revelation 22, the tree of life is back, for the healing of the nations. But it’s not the same as being returned to the Garden because Matthew 22 says “for in the resurrection, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage.”

It seems that there will be no more procreation/children after this point. We are not returned to our original state, something is different. It seems we will be androgynous?
I don't believe we'll be androgynous. Jesus was resurrected, and when seen by John in His glorified state, Jesus was identified as being male. I believe we will be male and female. However, being in glorified bodies, we will not have the biological make up subject to hormones that we have today. It will be absent. Therefore, there will be no biological process to even spark the desire for sex or reproduction. Consider couples that are well into their old age whose hormones are such that they have far less sexual desire than lets say two 20 somethings who are oozing with testosterone and estrogen. They might occasionally be intimate, to some degree. However, it is far less frequent than when they were in their 20's. In the resurrection, this lack of desire and interest will be 100%. Or perhaps you've had the flu or some sickness or injury, during the time of which you had absolutely "no desire". This is because the body is focused on healing and isn't producing the hormones necessary to begin the biological process that activates the body's responses to a passing sexual thought or interest. Since we've nearly always had some degree of sexual interest directly connected to the hormonal processes that fuel the desires in this flesh, it's difficult to imagine such a state of being. But I don't believe we will want, desire, or have any interest in sex. That being said, that isn't to say that we will not have the ability to be intimate. When I say "intimate" in this context, I'm talking about an intellectual and emotional closeness that is beyond sexual desire. Love and sex will no longer gel in the resurrection. And so, there is no need for marriage. Will you still love your current mate in the resurrection? I believe so. How could you not? But that love will be on a level so much more intimate and absolutely unhindered by the physical desires that we have today. In fact, our sense of brotherhood and sisterhood will be immeasurable. Any memory of physical intimacy might be greeted with a smile as a passing thought, with our glorified state being so much more "real" and even preferred. Although our glorified bodies will maintain the image of our genders, our sexuality and the hormonal processes of desire will be 100% absent.

It is often said that we will return to our Edenic glory and state. However, you're right. This eternal state is clearly different. It is well beyond being returned to our Edenic state. It is entering a glorified state with only shadows of the Edenic state present. It will be far greater, far more wonderful, and far more blessed than the Edenic state possessed by Adam and Eve.

Quote:
Wallace Stevens said, “death is the mother of beauty.” The fragile and transitory nature of life makes it so very precious.
In some ways yes. But beyond the sentimentality of this statement, eternity will be realized as being far more precious than this life could ever be.

Quote:
It was Jesus’ death and shedding of blood that gives meaning and beauty to our lives. It seems so odd to me to think that after the resurrection we will be frozen in eternity, no growth, no change, no epic struggle.
There will be no epic struggle, you are right. However, why do you think the glorified saints of God will be frozen in a state wherein there is no growth or change? There is an entire "new heaven and new earth".

Consider this possibility...

We will have glorified bodies on the New Earth, ruled by the unfading majesty of creation's King, Jesus Christ. I believe there will be worship, prayer, and praise. I believe there will be loving & healing reunions with friends and family. There will be cities, nations, cultures, languages, traditions, trade, farms, music, food, arts, dancing, and laughter. There will a New Earth filled with vast green forests, sandy beaches, cool crystal clear waters, and awe inspiring snow covered mountains. There will be holy science and sacred learning, for the benefit of all people and the creation itself. All of this, and more, will be a reality in a redeemed and glorified New Creation. Some will be given roles of leadership in the earth's government as kings, others will be given leadership in the church as priests. And others will find their callings in other ministries throughout eternity. Many that have felt the call of God on their lives here in this earthly life, but who have never been able to fulfill that call, will realize their callings in eternity as we serve the Lord forever. No one will be left with their music still trapped inside them. I believe the eternal Heaven will be full of every enjoyment originally intended for man. There will be no more carnal desires of the flesh, sickness, disease, and death. Sin and Satan will have won nothing. We will experience a never ending and unfading Heavenly Renaissance.

What do I think eternity will be like in Heaven's New Earth? One word... GLORIOUS.

Revelation 21:1-27

Last edited by Aquila; 02-14-2018 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 02-14-2018, 04:45 PM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: The Tree of Life

Esaias and Aquila, thanks for your responses, I've enjoyed reading them, food for thought as always.
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