Origins of Pentecost

Kutless · #1 02-20-2008, 10:51 AM

Was just wondering whom most would consider the "father" of Pentecost and from what genral time period. I've been listening to info about John Dowie, Marie Etter, Charles Parham, and WIlliam Seymour.

Also just started a book by Frank Bartleman "Azusa Street".

One more thing, I heard a quote from a book in which the author in turn quotes various periodicals from that era. It is stated that the services under William Seymour were quite disruptive with little to no order.

I would love to talk more about this or hear of any other good reads on the subject.

Revelationist · #2 02-20-2008, 11:34 AM

I think Peter was the father of Pentecost... anything outside of what he started is a fake....

SDG · #3 02-20-2008, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelationist

I think Peter was the father of Pentecost... anything outside of what he started is a fake....

Peter fathered Pentecost ????............ oh no.

TRFrance · #4 02-20-2008, 11:34 AM

Parham and Seymour did more to set the stage for the 20th century Pentecostal outpouring, than Etter and Dowie did. But I think I'd give the edge to Seymour, even though he essentially built on Parham's foundation.

From what I've read of Parham and his racial attitudes, he's not someone I'd want to honor with the title "Father of Modern Pentecostalism", as many people do, even though he did make significant contributions to the movement.

From Wikipedia:

"Another example of accusations against Parham were the allegations of racism. While Parham's writings confirm that he believed in racial segregation (which ultimately appears to have been a factor in his eventual separation from the William Seymour and the Azusa street revival), he would not have been considered a "racist" at the time. Parham was against mixed marriages and felt that there should be a separation of the races in or at religious services (and would have been deemed a "segregationist"). A racist of the period would not have allowed Seymour to attend his bible classes, and would not have had blacks at his meetings (both were activities Parham allowed and endorsed)."

OneAccord · #5 02-20-2008, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Parham and Seymour did more to set the stage for the 20th century Pentecostal outpouring, than Etter and Dowie did. But I think I'd give the edge to Seymour, even though he essentially built on Parham's foundation.

From what I've read of Parham and his racial attitudes, he's not someone I'd want to honor with the title "Father of Modern Pentecostalism", as many people do, even though he did make significant contributions to the movement.

From Wikipedia:

"Another example of accusations against Parham were the allegations of racism. While Parham's writings confirm that he believed in racial segregation (which ultimately appears to have been a factor in his eventual separation from the William Seymour and the Azusa street revival), he would not have been considered a "racist" at the time. Parham was against mixed marriages and felt that there should be a separation of the races in or at religious services (and would have been deemed a "segregationist"). A racist of the period would not have allowed Seymour to attend his bible classes, and would not have had blacks at his meetings (both were activities Parham allowed and endorsed)."

I read that when Bro. Seymour attended Bro. Parhams Bible School in Texas, he was not allowed to sit in the classroom. He sat in the hall with the door open to listen in. This was, as you know, the Deep South at a time when, things were just done that way.

Kutless · #6 02-20-2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneAccord

I read that when Bro. Seymour attended Bro. Parhams Bible School in Texas, he was not allowed to sit in the classroom. He sat in the hall with the door open to listen in. This was, as you know, the Deep South at a time when, things were just done that way.

I'd have to find the reference but it would seem the contention started when Parham visited the mission and disapproved of the chaotic services. Somewhere it said that Seymour sometimes sat in the back with his head covered and there was no preaching at all. I also heard that Seymour banned Parham from preaching at his services because of the disagreement.

Reading on www.wayoflife.org an article quotes from Bartlemans "Asuza Street" (first printing) on pg 172,73. The book I have which was sent to me by a dear friend doesn't have but 146 pgs. Does anyone know if the second printing left out a chapter....if so......why?

Jehoram · #7 02-20-2008, 11:42 AM

Kutless, in general Pentecostalism was unorganized and most services had very little regimentation.

Many meetings had no real pastoral leadership.

OneAccord · #8 02-20-2008, 11:47 AM

I don't know who would be the "father" of Pentecost other than God Himself. Some say Parham, but, others reject this because of some controversies surrounding Parham. There is no clear consensus as to who could be called the Father of Pentecost.

As far as disruption in the services, I think that would be a matter of perspective. To "outsiders', unfamilar with the operation of the Holy Ghost, it would seem the services were in disorder. But, these people were there to seek God and I don't think the services were out of order to them at all. I think of Act 10:44. To some, the Day of Pentecost, no doubt, seemed out of order and somewhat chaotic. Frank Bartleman captured the heart and soul of the 20th Century Pentecostal Movement. You can find some on-line copies of the Apostolic Faith newspaper that really sheds light on the Azusa Street Revival.

Much of what has been writtenabout Azusa Street is somewhat repetitive, unfortunately. After 100 years, much of what we get are the "highlights" of the meetings. The Apostolic Faith paper would give us more info than what has been handed down from one generation to the next.

Other good books:

Their Story: 20th Century Pentecostals (Fred J. Foster)

Visions of the Disinherited (Robert M. Anderson)

The Early Pentecostal Revival (James L. Tyson)

The Winds of God (Ethel E. Goss)

The Holiness-Pentecostal Tradition (Vinson Synan)

Dictionary of Pentecostal-Charismatic Movements (Stanley Burgess, Gary B. McGee)

I have heard "Azusa Street and Beyond" is excellent, but I don't think I have that one.