I wish preachers would....

Esaias · #1 09-09-2012, 12:59 PM

???

If you could change anything about what is preached or how it is preached, what would it be?

No, this is not a preacher bashing thread. It is sort of like a survey, trying to find out what people are wanting more of, less of, etc.

Just curious.

Oh, and I'm talking about preaching/preachers you have direct contact with. Wishing some preacher 'over there' would do this or stop that is kinda silly. I'm talking about what would benefit you, your family, and your fellowship.

Praxeas · #2 09-09-2012, 02:50 PM

Do more than read one verse then tell stories for 30 min

Titus2woman · #3 09-09-2012, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

???

If you could change anything about what is preached or how it is preached, what would it be?

No, this is not a preacher bashing thread. It is sort of like a survey, trying to find out what people are wanting more of, less of, etc.

Just curious.

Oh, and I'm talking about preaching/preachers you have direct contact with. Wishing some preacher 'over there' would do this or stop that is kinda silly. I'm talking about what would benefit you, your family, and your fellowship.

Share responsibility with elders and get a job that pays money. Or at the very least only live at the mid-mark financially of those they pastor rather than head and shoulders above their congregants.

Have open books about where the money goes so they could not do things like support extended family with money being given for the kingdom.

Not use scare tactics in preaching... i.e. "This is someone's last service"... "One time so and so sat in the back and didn't repent/submit/whatever and left and got killed in a car wreck/had a heart attack/got ran over by a reindeer on the way home from church...

That's a start.

HolyFire · #4 09-10-2012, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Share responsibility with elders and get a job that pays money. Or at the very least only live at the mid-mark financially of those they pastor rather than head and shoulders above their congregants.

Have open books about where the money goes so they could not do things like support extended family with money being given for the kingdom.

Not use scare tactics in preaching... i.e. "This is someone's last service"... "One time so and so sat in the back and didn't repent/submit/whatever and left and got killed in a car wreck/had a heart attack/got ran over by a reindeer on the way home from church...

That's a start.

I wouldn't want my pastor working. He gets a salary like you mentioned. He 's constantly teaching Bible studies though.

samuelofisrael · #5 09-10-2012, 05:26 AM

Share responsibility with elders and get a job that pays money. Or at the very least only live at the mid-mark financially of those they pastor rather than head and shoulders above their congregants.

Have open books about where the money goes so they could not do things like support extended family with money being given for the kingdom.

Not use scare tactics in preaching... i.e. "This is someone's last service"... "One time so and so sat in the back and didn't repent/submit/whatever and left and got killed in a car wreck/had a heart attack/got ran over by a reindeer on the way home from church...

That's a start.

Elders is an APOSTOLIC DIRECTIVE by the Apostle to the gentile church. It is correct "church order." The absence of accountability to an eldership leads to many errors of honest teaching, dictatorship, over estimation of one's ability and can lead to great abuse. The "pastor" is ONE of the ministers of the fellowship, not THE master of lives of the congregation.

Financial accountability is one safeguard the pastor should covet. It elevates him above any criticism of misusing congregational monies. The elders and deacons should take charge of this work with the participation of the elected pastor. The old "one man rule" can be a prelude to many evils. Paul established elders in every new congregation. The pastor is deserving of a salary in that he serves the people in the ministry of preaching and teaching constantly. Elders also can speak and teach if so gifted.

The elders should meet with the pastor if he should be apt to use psychological tactics such as: "they left my ministry and soon after that they were injured in a car wreck." The elders are a "check and balance" ministry or should be. Every man is to The lack of fellowship accountability has led to great damage in so many once sincere congregations. The elders should be the pastor's greatest friends and confidents. Those who eschew elders eschew APOSTOLIC ORDER. And that leads to confusion, abuse and foolish errors.

Only the Scriptures rightly exegeted is the Word of God.

Truthseeker · #6 09-09-2012, 03:59 PM

Understand what a real move of God is.

AreYouReady? · #7 09-09-2012, 10:28 PM

Quit acting like they are the head of Christ's church.

Michael The Disciple · #8 09-10-2012, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Financial accountability is one safeguard the pastor should covet. It elevates him above any criticism of misusing congregational monies. The elders and deacons should take charge of this work with the participation of the elected pastor. The old "one man rule" can be a prelude to many evils. Paul established elders in every new congregation. The pastor is deserving of a salary in that he serves the people in the ministry of preaching and teaching constantly. Elders also can speak and teach if so gifted.

Chapter and verse that teaches Elders and Pastors are two different offices? New Testament please.

Titus2woman · #9 09-10-2012, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HolyFire

I wouldn't want my pastor working. He gets a salary like you mentioned. He 's constantly teaching Bible studies though.

Have to ask... Why not?... want your pastor to have a job I mean...

To be clear even I am not begrudging a pastor a salary IF he actually works for the church full time although I do think many men in the role of full time church employee lose touch with what most of the people they are trying to lead are really doing in life. I am definitely for limiting that salary to the median income of those who pay it. Too often pastor drives a new Lexus while the guy paying his salary drives a 10 year old pick-up. Or in extreme cases in our area pastors have Mc Mansions, vacation properties, etc. all bought and paid for by the church... living at or above the comfort level of highest paid person in the church and equating that with the blessings of God.

Our local guys are all the single pastor model. No significant oversight.

samuelofisrael · #10 09-11-2012, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Chapter and verse that teaches Elders and Pastors are two different offices? New Testament please.

I said nothing about an "office," in fact, the elders are part of the church's congregational ministry. They are permitted to teach if they are so gifted. A "pastor" [one of the elders] is part of the five fold ministry if a truely called and gifted man anointed of the Holy Spirit.

As far as the FIVE FOLD ministry is concerned:

Eph 4:11-13

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Paul further states: " ... are all apostles, ....?"

1 Co 12:28-29

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

In the case of "elders" we find: "ruling well," "worthy of double honor," "apt to teach," ordained of the apostles.

In the setting of DIVINE ORDER in the NT Church the "apostles AND the elders" are mentioned together. It is always a plurality, never the thought of a one man rule that is so prevelant in many congregations, especially those of a certain doctrinal conviction.

As far as a different office is concerned, it would seem [from Holy Writ] that the Five Fold is ministries chosen by the Holy Spirit exclusively but the plurality of the elders are ordained of the fellowship which recognizes the anointing of the Holy Spirit in their lives.

Paul catatorically states:

1 Co 12:28-13:1

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

Surely we must see a distinction between the God chosen FIVE FOLD ministry and the ministry of gifts of healing, tongues and interpretation, etc. Many of the charismata can be operative in the NT Church but those who have those gifts [if they in fact do] are not necessarily pastors, teachers or apostles. Even those who operate in the charismata may not be an elder tho it is not impossible.

A pastor is surely one of the elders of the congregation but the "elders" are not therefore the pastor per se tho the elders can teach and be worthy of double honor should "he" labor in the Word and Doctrine.

Is there a "distinction" between the God called FIVE FOLD and the eldership? I would say so gauging by what ALL is taught in the NT.

Acts 14:23 points out the ordination of elders by the congregation. As in the case of "deacons," [helpers], they were chosen of the church.

Ac 6:3

3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.

One [if discerning] can see the distinction between a God called man to the APOSTOLIC FIVE FOLD ministry and deacons or even elders. It is possible that an elder can rise to the ministry of pastor if so chosen by the congregation.

In the Acts narrative we find, "apostles AND elders" mentioned at least six times as a distinction. But in the case of the Apostle Peter who was both called to the FIVE FOLD ministry, he too was one of the "elders" as I have mentioned.

One of the FIVE FOLD can be and it would follow that they are of the eldership but the "elders" would not necessarily be of the FIVE FOLD ministry. There are distinctions in all the minstries, talents, gifts, callings, anointings.

Is there a distinction between a "pastor" and the "elders" its effectual outworking and calling?

Surely there is, both as revealed in Holy Writ and common practice. Is there a distinction in gifts? Yes. Are all apostles? Are all teachers? Are all elders? Do all have the gifts of healing? The answere CANNOT be YES but NO. So is there a difference between those gifted men called of God as pastors and those ordained as "elders." There are congregations today that have elders. Elders as in the plurality, never a congregational one man rule.

Finally, a pastor can be one of the elders as in the case of Peter. But an elder is not necessarily a pastor or an apostle or an evangelist or a teacher but can have ability to labor in doctrine and the Word. Distinctions, plurality of elders, differing giftings, FIVE FOLD ministry, deacons are all taught as APOSTOLIC NT ministries. Why would we want it any differently?

ONLY THE SCRIPTURES CORRECTLY EXEGETED IS THE WORD OF GOD.