Do you tithe on loans?

[jediwill83]

Since you pay loans back would you be required to tithe on them?

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Since you pay loans back would you be required to tithe on them?

Do you tithe on the money you use to pay the loan back? If so, technically, you wouldn't need to tithe on the loan, itself.

[Jack Shephard]

Just curious, why would you? It is not income that you earned it is something given to you under a set of criteria and you return the money with intrest. That is bad enough. One of the goals of every believer should be to get to the place where loans are something you give not something you take. I try and do cash for everything. I have one loan outstanding, my home note that is it. Beyond that it is cash. Don't be confused here I live in AZ and make barley over 30k for my household income. My home note is on my condo, but do to family growth I acutally rent a home and rent out my condo. I have little debt over all. It is certainly tough not making much but I am lucky to not have much debt of large proportions.

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Just curious, why would you? It is not income that you earned it is something given to you under a set of criteria and you return the money with intrest. That is bad enough. One of the goals of every believer should be to get to the place where loans are something you give not something you take. I try and do cash for everything. I have one loan outstanding, my home note that is it. Beyond that it is cash. Don't be confused here I live in AZ and make barley over 30k for my household income. My home note is on my condo, but do to family growth I acutally rent a home and rent out my condo. I have little debt over all. It is certainly tough not making much but I am lucky to not have much debt of large proportions.

I agree with you, but I would add a little different verbiage. The reason you don't pay tithe on a loan is because the Bible says that we tithe on our "increase" and a loan is not increase.

P.S. If you want to pay that condo off quickly contact me. I have prepaid my mortgage note 17 months since February without taking any money out of my household budget or using any of my own money!

[A.W. Bowman]

Just dropped by to say “hi”, and look at what I found!

Interesting topic, one that keeps coming up from time to time. To tithe or not to tithe, that is the question, and if one is to tithe, how much, how often, and on what? Well, here are the eight statutes on tithing.

Mitzvot:

202. Not to eat untithed fruits Lev. 22:15
249. To separate the tithe for the poor Deut. 14:28
252. To set aside Terumah Gedolah (tithe for the Kohen) Deut. 18:4
253. The Levite must set aside a tenth of his tithe Num. 18:26
261. To set aside the second tithe (Ma'aser Sheni) Deut. 14:22
269. To read the confession of tithes every fourth and seventh year Deut. 26:13
429. Separate the tithe from animals Lev. 27:32
430. Not to redeem the tithe Lev. 27:33

Reference to Malachi 3:10, “Bring ye all the tithes [reference the above list] into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. {pour...: Heb. empty out}” [Also note the purpose for the tithes in this passage']

So, how many of these mitzvot have you preached (or heard taught) in your congregations lately? Not too many I would warrant. Obvious question: Why not?

Compare with Eph 1:3, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: {places: or, things}”

Are we then to exchange our new covenant promises for the old? You are free to, if you wish. Me? I’ll pass, thank you.

If one is to be a teacher of the law, one must first learn to rightly divide the word of truth and teach the entire Law as God intended. (1Ti 1:7; 2Ti 2:15) God’s word is not a buffet where one may freely pick and choose among a list of options. No one can claim that the Law of God is finished, done away with, abolished, set aside, made null and void, or to be of no effect in a Christian’s life, and still appeal to that same law in order to impose compliance to some religious ordinance decreed by the assembly leadership. Jesus had a term or two for those kinds of spiritual leaders.

Obvious question: Do I believe in tithing?
Answer: Yes. When I am able, that is my benchmark for minimum giving.

Next obvious question: Do I believe that The Law still exists and has a legitimate role to play in a Christian’s life?
Answer: Yes. If one uses the law in a lawful manner.

Next obvious question: Don’t the books of Romans and Galatians exclude the application of The Law in a Christian’s life?
Answer No. Not from the Hebraic perspective of the authors or their intended readers.

Last question: Am I going to explain all of this, perhaps through a Bible study?
Answer: Yes, but not right now and most likely not here. I am currently devoting my time to developing a major study on Mat 5-7, from a Hebraic point of view for a Messianic focused group. There will be a continuation study, or perhaps incorporated with the study in Matthew, on the lawful application (use) of The Law in a believer's life.

I'll return when I can. Meanwhile, I can still be reached via email for those interested in these studies.

Shalom Aleichem

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

Just dropped by to say “hi”, and look at what I found!

Interesting topic, one that keeps coming up from time to time. To tithe or not to tithe, that is the question, and if one is to tithe, how much, how often, and on what? Well, here are the eight statutes on tithing.

Mitzvot:

202. Not to eat untithed fruits Lev. 22:15
249. To separate the tithe for the poor Deut. 14:28
252. To set aside Terumah Gedolah (tithe for the Kohen) Deut. 18:4
253. The Levite must set aside a tenth of his tithe Num. 18:26
261. To set aside the second tithe (Ma'aser Sheni) Deut. 14:22
269. To read the confession of tithes every fourth and seventh year Deut. 26:13
429. Separate the tithe from animals Lev. 27:32
430. Not to redeem the tithe Lev. 27:33

Reference to Malachi 3:10, “Bring ye all the tithes [reference the above list] into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. {pour...: Heb. empty out}” [Also note the purpose for the tithes in this passage']

So, how many of these mitzvot have you preached (or heard taught) in your congregations lately? Not too many I would warrant. Obvious question: Why not?

Compare with Eph 1:3, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: {places: or, things}”

Are we then to exchange our new covenant promises for the old? You are free to, if you wish. Me? I’ll pass, thank you.

If one is to be a teacher of the law, one must first learn to rightly divide the word of truth and teach the entire Law as God intended. (1Ti 1:7; 2Ti 2:15) God’s word is not a buffet where one may freely pick and choose among a list of options. No one can claim that the Law of God is finished, done away with, abolished, set aside, made null and void, or to be of no effect in a Christian’s life, and still appeal to that same law in order to impose compliance to some religious ordinance decreed by the assembly leadership. Jesus had a term or two for those kinds of spiritual leaders.

Obvious question: Do I believe in tithing?
Answer: Yes. When I am able, that is my benchmark for minimum giving.

Next obvious question: Do I believe that The Law still exists and has a legitimate role to play in a Christian’s life?
Answer: Yes. If one uses the law in a lawful manner.

Next obvious question: Don’t the books of Romans and Galatians exclude the application of The Law in a Christian’s life?
Answer No. Not from the Hebraic perspective of the authors or their intended readers.

Last question: Am I going to explain all of this, perhaps through a Bible study?
Answer: Yes, but not right now and most likely not here. I am currently devoting my time to developing a major study on Mat 5-7, from a Hebraic point of view for a Messianic focused group. There will be a continuation study, or perhaps incorporated with the study in Matthew, on the lawful application (use) of The Law in a believer's life.

I'll return when I can. Meanwhile, I can still be reached via email for those interested in these studies.

Shalom Aleichem

It sounds to me like you have created a convenient theology that works around what you want.

If you study your Old Testament, which you seem to be a good student of judging by your other posts the tithe preceded the law by MANY years. You can even take the principle of tithing all the way back to the garden when the Lord set aside a tree and established it has His and that it should not be eaten from.

Obviously we see Adam as a tither, but Jacob also declared that he would tithe of a tenth of all his increase after the experience termed as "Jacob's Ladder." As you are well aware these all pre-date the law by a long shot.

To me the most interesting of your statements is the following:

Obvious question: Do I believe in tithing?
Answer: Yes. When I am able, that is my benchmark for minimum giving.

By this statement it would be easy to assume that there are times that you are not able. When you are "not able" would be times when the up keep of your carnal life exceeds the ability to fund or honor God's Word. I think in biblical terms this is the system of mammon:

Luke 16:13
13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. (KJV)

I would venture to say that those who are of the same mindset as you have to ask their money each week if they can give into the Kingdom. Personally I have found (according to Matt 6:33) if I put God first He sees to it that I always have enough. Therefore, I never ask my money what I can do, I tell my money where it is going. Subsequently, I always have more than enough.

Anyway, I hope you have enough for God in a couple of days!

[hushergirl]

Thanks to all of you who rplied and to those who can go without doing a loan great sometimes we who live o nfixed incomes and have a lot of health issues and maybe we are not as great as others who have no bills I saY great for you but I am not as good with money as need be and do not have a lot of it so was just asking about loans and tithing not needing a comment on maki bg the loan.

[Jeffrey]

Sometimes we start with the wrong question

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Sometimes we start with the wrong question

Or maybe we have been taught the wrong meaning from the beginning and therefor we have all these questions.

If we have to ask do we tithe on this or that then we don't understand what tithe is and what God intended it to be used for. Our giving to God has always been a part of the worship of his children. But worship must be free will, never an obligation. Tithing up till the Law was always part of worship something done in thanksgiving for what God had done for said person.

This is why the keeping of the law has been fulfilled. As God never intended the Jew to keep the law as religiously as it became. The law was a set of guidlines to base life off of not to be a ridgid list of rules as the pharise followed.

Further the use of the tithe as seen in our society in not how God intended things to be either. I was never one mans (pastors) increase. It was to provide for the substanace of all the workings of the kingdom of God. Which the tabernacle in the wildreness represented. All one has to do is to read the book to see this.

Gloryseeker
By this statement it would be easy to assume that there are times that you are not able. When you are "not able" would be times when the up keep of your carnal life exceeds the ability to fund or honor God's Word. I think in biblical terms this is the system of mammon:

I would be very carefull of those types of words of judgment they will come back to haunt you.

It was never whether we understand and follow the principles set forth in the law, it was the keeping of the law as the Pharise did that was the issue Jesus said he came to fulfill the law meaning by his sacrifice we should never go back to following a list of rules as we would have his spirit with us again as was in the garden. And we would walk by the spirit. When we fall back on the written list and dogmas we form a law of our own which become just as bad as the law keeping of the Jew. We try to fall back on our own works of righteousness and not Gods.

[missourimary]

I joked about this with on a board the other day (may have been this one, can't remember). My TIC thought is that if you want to take tithing to the letter of the law (as it stands to many today, not Biblically speaking), if you consider the $300,000 house yours, and you are gaining the benefit from it, then how is it not as much (or more) a part of your increase as the paycheck of a man who is trying to support his family on $20,000/yr and just barely making ends meet, or the person on food stamps who is giving food to the church to pay a tithe on their government assistance? How is a $300,000 house less of an increase than subsistence?

If a person takes out loans and then files bankruptcy and has some debts erased, do they pay tithes on the amounts erased, if they used their loans to pay for things I use my income to pay for? for instance:
Mary:
$300/wk pay
-$30 tithes
-$15 offering
-$50 food
-$205 rent


Bro Debtor:
-$50 food on credit card
$300/wk pay
-$30 tithes
-$15 offering
-$255 rent

Mary spent $300, Bro D spent $350. He benefited from all $350, yet only paid $30 in tithes. If Bro D pays that money back later, did he really tithe on the first fruits since he began benefiting from the amount when he took out the loan? If Bro D defaults and doesn't pay the money back at all, he hasn't tithed on all his increase.

(I'm not preaching this method, but I've seen people manipulate this loophole to advantage.)