The Last Trump

[shag]

Not Donald



Are 1 Cor. 15:52
and
Rev. 11:15 (taken from Rev. 8:2)
and
1 Thess. 4:15-17

all 3 the same “blowing of the same (last/7th) trumpet?”


https://biblehub.com/niv/1_corinthians/15.htm

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...11&version=NIV

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...17&version=NIV

[Amanah]

It's a great question because Rev 11:15 mentions the kingdoms of this world becoming the kingdoms of our Lord and Christ, which sounds like the millennial reign (Rev 20), which happens after the return of Jesus with his bride and the defeat of Babylon (Rev 19). It's not linear.

- 1 Corinthians 15:52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 describe the resurrection and change of believers.
- Matthew 24:29-31 and Revelation 19 also describe the same event, where Jesus returns to earth, and the elect are gathered and resurrected.

So, just as there was an abomination of desolation with Antiochus Epiphanies IV 167 BC and then again with Titus in 70 AD. I think it quite possible that while some of the events in Matthew 24 happened in 70 AD, some have yet to happen, some could have a dual fulfillment? Maybe?

[diakonos]

Where do people get this idea of dual fulfillment?

[shag]

Originally Posted by diakonos

Where do people get this idea of dual fulfillment?

And if not dual, why not triple or quadruple, would seem a genuinely reasonable question.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shag

And if not dual, why not triple or quadruple, would seem a genuinely reasonable question.

As Joe Biden would put “quadruple zillion quabillion.”

[Amanah]

I admit to not knowing everything
But take comfort in the fact no one else does either

Is there such a thing as multiple fulfillment?

The destruction of Jerusalem:
- 586 BCE (2 Kings 25:1-21): Babylonian destruction
- 70 AD (Luke 21:20-24): Roman destruction

The scattering of Israel:
- 722 BCE (2 Kings 17:1-23): Assyrian exile
- 586 BCE (2 Kings 25:1-21): Babylonian exile
- 70 AD (Luke 21:20-24): Roman dispersion

The abomination of desolation:
- 167 BCE (Daniel 11:31): Antiochus IV Epiphanes' desecration
- 70 AD (Matthew 24:15): Roman destruction of the Temple

The Day of the Lord:
- Various instances of judgment and deliverance throughout Israel's history (Joel 2:1-32, Amos 5:18-20)
- Future eschatological event (1 Thessalonians 5:2, 2 Peter 3:10)

scriptures can have earlier events foreshadowing or typifying later ones.

[Amanah]

Sorry guys, I enjoy doing this. Esaias can come along and straighten things out later

Are there multiple instances of the "coming of the Son of Man" mentioned in the Bible:

Jesus' transfiguration (Matthew 17:1-13, Mark 9:2-13, Luke 9:28-36): A preview of His glory, where He appears with Moses and Elijah.

Jesus' triumphal entry (Matthew 21:1-11, Mark 11:1-11, Luke 19:28-44): Jesus enters Jerusalem, fulfilling Zechariah 9:9.

Jesus' resurrection and ascension (Acts 1:9-11): Jesus returns to heaven, with a promise to return again.

The destruction of Jerusalem (Matthew 24, Luke 21:20-24): Jesus' prophecy of the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

The resurrection and final return (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, also Matthew 24): Jesus' future return to gather believers and judge the world.

The Apocalypse (Revelation 1:7, 14:14-20): Jesus appears as the Son of Man, judging and redeeming.

These instances demonstrate various aspects of Jesus' "coming" or presence, emphasizing His glory, authority, and redemption.

[shag]

It spells confusion to me.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by shag

It spells confusion to me.

Tell me what your theory is?

[shag]

Originally Posted by shag

Not Donald



Are 1 Cor. 15:52
and
Rev. 11:15 (taken from Rev. 8:2)
and
1 Thess. 4:15-17

all 3 the same “blowing of the same (last/7th) trumpet?”


https://biblehub.com/niv/1_corinthians/15.htm

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...11&version=NIV

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...17&version=NIV

Originally Posted by Amanah

Tell me what your theory is?

My THEORY is yes, they are all speaking of the same thing, because all speak of the resurrection, and I do not believe in multiple resurrection fulfillments. Well, scratch that, scripture does speak of more than one resurrection I think in Rev 20

It’s interesting to me that revelation 11:18 puts God‘s wrath “right along side” the resurrection. And I tend to put Gods wrath, taken upon the first century Jews that rejected the Messiah. “Fill up the measure”…



Meanwhile, in 1 Thess. 1, Paul says 10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.


Paul telling the Thessalonians that Jesus would rescue them
from the coming wrath. What/when/why wrath? Is this wrath the days of vengeance?

Sort of reminds me what is being taught with a rapture, as a rescue, but while some teach as a rescue from a tribulation to come, this seems to be a rescue from wrath. Begs the question, Are the wrath and the tribulation spoken of, two different things?

I have far more questions than I have answers