Are you "Progressive"

[bishoph]

Over the last couple of years, and here on this forum in the past few weeks I have witnessed the emergence of a new “buzz” word, namely, “Progressive.” Here is the dictionary’s definition: (I have deleted 9 definitions which did not apply)

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
pro·gres·sive [pruh-gres-iv] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, esp. in political matters: a progressive mayor.
2. making progress toward better conditions; employing or advocating more enlightened or liberal ideas, new or experimental methods, etc.: a progressive community.
9. Medicine/Medical. continuously increasing in extent or severity, as a disease.
–noun

As I read and hear many use this term, I have become increasingly disturbed in my spirit by the redefining of what it means to be “progressive.” On the one hand, I believe that the church should be a truly progressive force in our world. We should favor and advocate progress, change, improvement, and reform, both on a personal and corporate basis. However, progress does not mean the abandonment of principles, morals, and values that are established by God.

There seems to be an attempt by some to convince us, that being a true “progressive” one must be enlightened with some new or “progressive” revelation that seeks to abolish standards, traditions, and even personal convictions that have no “scriptural mandate.” That in order to be effective, one must be relevant to their culture, so much so, that the line of demarcation between the church and the world is hard to see.

Many (not all) of those that aspire to this “progressive” mindset belittle those that hold onto their convictions, accusing them of being enemies of revival, and a hindrance to the evangelization of the world. They often times tout their “liberty” with arrogance and a self-righteous attitude, which they themselves despise from those who are still in “bondage.” I fear that this new age of “progressivism” is in reality a decent into liberalism, which like a disease attacks the core values, principles, and foundation of whatever society, institution, or religion it seeks to change, until there is little or no resemblance of its original state.
The underlying treachery of this “progressive” movement; is the ideology that true progress is measured by how far removed one can be from their place of origin. This is done by creating the illusion that they are in search of reformation based on restoration to the original, only to find that the original has been rewritten to align with their ideology. This creates a need to redefine every aspect of our heritage, doctrine, and name. Apostolic becomes authority, doctrine becomes dogma, separation and sanctification becomes legalism, charisma becomes anointing etc, and the Apostles did not mean what they said unless it is aligned with their “progressive” theology. All too often new and experimental ideas are embraced without looking at possible consequences; this creates instability in the name of “progress” because there is no longer a foundation to build upon.

It is interesting observation to me that the scriptures teach us the principle of adding to (progressive) our spiritual walk, yet this new "progressive" ideology seeks to subtract or strip away from us all of those things that we have found as safeguards of the anointing in our lives.

Let us never be deceived! New methods can be used without compromising the integrity of our faith. Building upon that which is laid, defines progress, not the abolishment of the foundations. Let us not be guilty of making new disciples and bringing them something that is so “progressive” that it makes them two-fold children of hell.

Let us be progressive and build upon that solid foundation which has been laid. But as the Apostle Paul warned us in 1 Corinthians 3:10 ….Let every man take heed how he buildeth thereon.

These are the musings of a young old time preacher with a hunger for a return to the old paths.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by bishoph

Over the last couple of years, and here on this forum in the past few weeks I have witnessed the emergence of a new “buzz” word, namely, “Progressive.” Here is the dictionary’s definition: (I have deleted 9 definitions which did not apply)

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
pro·gres·sive [pruh-gres-iv] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, esp. in political matters: a progressive mayor.
2. making progress toward better conditions; employing or advocating more enlightened or liberal ideas, new or experimental methods, etc.: a progressive community.
9. Medicine/Medical. continuously increasing in extent or severity, as a disease.
–noun

I remember hearing a camp evangelist introduce himself as a "progressive" almost 20 years ago. Later I heard another popular UPC speaker introduce himself almost verbatim with the same words. A few others over the years seemed to use the same intro. I remember wondering if all these guys had gotten together and had worked it all out. Then I seemed to realize that they were just feeding off of each other's passions. I have a family member that was among this group and so I figured that I would have heard some rumblings if it was all part of a planned coup. In time I really appreciated the rather broad range of opinions represented by this group. In American history, Teddy R. was "the great Progressive." Bully!

Originally Posted by bishoph

As I read and hear many use this term, I have become increasingly disturbed in my spirit by the redefining of what it means to be “progressive.” On the one hand, I believe that the church should be a truly progressive force in our world. We should favor and advocate progress, change, improvement, and reform, both on a personal and corporate basis. However, progress does not mean the abandonment of principles, morals, and values that are established by God. ...

These are the musings of a young old time preacher with a hunger for a return to the old paths.

I think I understand your angst. But our movement is a complex and dynamic force. Many of the blocks laid up in one structure were never present in another. So when you try to add one person's "old blocks" to another structure, they're entirely new and don't have the patina people are accustomed to seeing. When you say it is "old" many of those around you will be perplexed. You might even show a very old genealogy - but if the block was never a part of their structure, they won't accept it as old.

Also, so many of the things that were once heralded as great signs of "separation from the world" were really reactions against worldly fads. And worldly fads are fickle. To try and keep up with everything we would have to become fickle as well. I remember in the early 1980's being told not to wear skinny ties because "punk rockers" were wearing skinny ties. Then I'd look at a picture of a bunch of preachers from the 1950's/early 1960's and they were all wearing skinny ties.

I had a friend that moved from a snowy climate to a warmer climate. When it began to rain one day (and it really rained!) she had no better shoes to wear than her leather boots. People in the church were shocked. In their climate only prostitutes wore leather boots. Of course as women are want to do; they all used it as an excuse to go shoe shopping. It's funny how many of the ladies can settle their differences with a shoe shopping spree.

When you say "old paths" my heart jumps and longs for things that are eternal, not fickle. And please, I'm not saying that you're "fickle" or even that I disagree with you. I think we're actually hungering for some of the same things. It's just that over the years I've learned that to get to those "eternal" things I have to be willing to inspect my building blocks a little more carefully now. Just because it's someone else's heritage doesn't necessarily make it mine. In fact, sometimes it would be wrong for me to even claim it as my heritage (1 Kings 21 and 2 Kings 9).

[Raven]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I remember hearing a camp evangelist introduce himself as a "progressive" almost 20 years ago. Later I heard another popular UPC speaker introduce himself almost verbatim with the same words. A few others over the years seemed to use the same intro. I remember wondering if all these guys had gotten together and had worked it all out. Then I seemed to realize that they were just feeding off of each other's passions. I have a family member that was among this group and so I figured that I would have heard some rumblings if it was all part of a planned coup. In time I really appreciated the rather broad range of opinions represented by this group. In American history, Teddy R. was "the great Progressive." Bully!


I think I understand your angst. But our movement is a complex and dynamic force. Many of the blocks laid up in one structure were never present in another. So when you try to add one person's "old blocks" to another structure, they're entirely new and don't have the patina people are accustomed to seeing. When you say it is "old" many of those around you will be perplexed. You might even show a very old genealogy - but if the block was never a part of their structure, they won't accept it as old.

Also, so many of the things that were once heralded as great signs of "separation from the world" were really reactions against worldly fads. And worldly fads are fickle. To try and keep up with everything we would have to become fickle as well. I remember in the early 1980's being told not to wear skinny ties because "punk rockers" were wearing skinny ties. Then I'd look at a picture of a bunch of preachers from the 1950's/early 1960's and they were all wearing skinny ties.

I had a friend that moved from a snowy climate to a warmer climate. When it began to rain one day (and it really rained!) she had no better shoes to wear than her leather boots. People in the church were shocked. In their climate only prostitutes wore leather boots. Of course as women are want to do; they all used it as an excuse to go shoe shopping. It's funny how many of the ladies can settle their differences with a shoe shopping spree.

When you say "old paths" my heart jumps and longs for things that are eternal, not fickle. And please, I'm not saying that you're "fickle" or even that I disagree with you. I think we're actually hungering for some of the same things. It's just that over the years I've learned that to get to those "eternal" things I have to be willing to inspect my building blocks a little more carefully now. Just because it's someone else's heritage doesn't necessarily make it mine. In fact, sometimes it would be wrong for me to even claim it as my heritage (1 Kings 21 and 2 Kings 9).

Once again very succinctly written Pelathais! I couldn't have said it better myself.

Raven

[Newman]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I think I understand your angst. But our movement is a complex and dynamic force. Many of the blocks laid up in one structure were never present in another. So when you try to add one person's "old blocks" to another structure, they're entirely new and don't have the patina people are accustomed to seeing. When you say it is "old" many of those around you will be perplexed. You might even show a very old genealogy - but if the block was never a part of their structure, they won't accept it as old.

Also, so many of the things that were once heralded as great signs of "separation from the world" were really reactions against worldly fads. And worldly fads are fickle. To try and keep up with everything we would have to become fickle as well. I remember in the early 1980's being told not to wear skinny ties because "punk rockers" were wearing skinny ties. Then I'd look at a picture of a bunch of preachers from the 1950's/early 1960's and they were all wearing skinny ties.

I had a friend that moved from a snowy climate to a warmer climate. When it began to rain one day (and it really rained!) she had no better shoes to wear than her leather boots. People in the church were shocked. In their climate only prostitutes wore leather boots. Of course as women are want to do; they all used it as an excuse to go shoe shopping. It's funny how many of the ladies can settle their differences with a shoe shopping spree.

When you say "old paths" my heart jumps and longs for things that are eternal, not fickle. And please, I'm not saying that you're "fickle" or even that I disagree with you. I think we're actually hungering for some of the same things. It's just that over the years I've learned that to get to those "eternal" things I have to be willing to inspect my building blocks a little more carefully now. Just because it's someone else's heritage doesn't necessarily make it mine. In fact, sometimes it would be wrong for me to even claim it as my heritage (1 Kings 21 and 2 Kings 9).

Great post. Wisdom spoken here.

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by pelathais

When you say "old paths" my heart jumps and longs for things that are eternal, not fickle. And please, I'm not saying that you're "fickle" or even that I disagree with you. I think we're actually hungering for some of the same things. It's just that over the years I've learned that to get to those "eternal" things I have to be willing to inspect my building blocks a little more carefully now. Just because it's someone else's heritage doesn't necessarily make it mine. In fact, sometimes it would be wrong for me to even claim it as my heritage (1 Kings 21 and 2 Kings 9).

I can agree with much of your response and believe that as you said we are hungering for the same thing. All of our heritage, IMO, is one and the same if we can trace our foundation to that of Christ and the apostles. And it is that foundation which must be absolute. Much of the rest is the result of differences in decor and design which does not change the structural integrity of the foundation. God never intended for every house to be the same design, he does however, require that all of the same materials are used in the project for it to be complete.

[anapko]

When you say "old paths" my heart jumps and longs for things that are eternal, not fickle. And please, I'm not saying that you're "fickle" or even that I disagree with you. I think we're actually hungering for some of the same things. It's just that over the years I've learned that to get to those "eternal" things I have to be willing to inspect my building blocks a little more carefully now. Just because it's someone else's heritage doesn't necessarily make it mine. In fact, sometimes it would be wrong for me to even claim it as my heritage (1 Kings 21 and 2 Kings 9).[/QUOTE]

This is a good post! I am in agreement with it, very well done!

[Rhymis]

"We all want progress, but if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive."
C.S. Lewis