Destined To Reign

[Dedicated Mind]

I'm reading Joseph Prince's book, "Destined To Reign". I'm one third through and am totally convinced that holiness standards are about achieving righteousness through good works and not about Grace. Can anyone defend standards and explain how they are not about earning righteousness?

[BroJoe]

First off, Joseph Prince is a trinitarian "the grace of God covers everything" kind of preacher. I'd be very careful of opening my spirit to anyone who's not Apostolic.

Second, tell which Holiness standards you are referring to. Some people have different definitions.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by BroJoe

First off, Joseph Prince is a trinitarian "the grace of God covers everything" kind of preacher. I'd be very careful of opening my spirit to anyone who's not Apostolic.

Second, tell which Holiness standards you are referring to. Some people have different definitions.

what doesn't the grace of god cover? i am referring to all standards as a means of earning righteousness. if righteousness is by faith in christ, which standards can earn us righteousness or do you view standards as a fruit of righteousness?

[BroJoe]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

what doesn't the grace of god cover?

In other words, it doesn't matter if I sin, it doesn't matter if I'm in the will of God, the grace supercedes and makes it all better for me.

i am referring to all standards as a means of earning righteousness.

You cannot earn righteousness, Romans 5 outlines this pretty well.

which standards can earn us righteousness or do you view standards as a fruit of righteousness?

My personal standards are to keep me separate from the world and to please the Lord.

I will not say people who do not follow holiness are going to hell. But I will say that it is probably not pleasing to the Lord.

That's really what we should want to do...is please the Lord.

Remember, my good works are not counted to me as righteousness, but my good works are because of the debt that I owe Him. (See Romans 4:4)

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by BroJoe

In other words, it doesn't matter if I sin, it doesn't matter if I'm in the will of God, the grace supercedes and makes it all better for me.
You cannot earn righteousness, Romans 5 outlines this pretty well.

My personal standards are to keep me separate from the world and to please the Lord.

I will not say people who do not follow holiness are going to hell. But I will say that it is probably not pleasing to the Lord.

That's really what we should want to do...is please the Lord.

Remember, my good works are not counted to me as righteousness, but my good works are because of the debt that I owe Him. (See Romans 4:4)

joseph prince does not condone sin. he does teach that all of our sins, past present and future are forgiven when we believe. this knowledge and relationship should break the bondage of sin in our lives. so if you don't follow standards the Lord will be angry with you?

[BroJoe]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

joseph prince does not condone sin. he does teach that all of our sins, past present and future are forgiven when we believe.

That's bogus.

One example. If future sins are forgiven when one believes, then why was Annanias and Sapphira struck dead for lying to the Holy Ghost?

If they were already forgiven, why would this have happened?

this knowledge and relationship should break the bondage of sin in our lives.

We were born into sin, shapen in iniquity. Yes, when we come to Christ and receive the new birth experience, the power of sin is broken over our lives but that's not a free ticket to live like the devil and yet still enjoy the grace of God and that power he gave to us.

I don't have the power over sin, but the Holy Ghost gives me the power over sin when He takes residence in my life.

Galatians 5:16 says "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."

1 John 2:16 says "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."

You have a choice to walk in the Spirit, which will give you the power over sin. You also have the choice to walk in the lust of the flesh.

so if you don't follow standards the Lord will be angry with you?

I do not believe He will be pleased if all of a sudden I started dressing in a provacative fashion, letting my hair grow long, etc.

Here's the reason why. If I were to do that, it would only be out of a spirit of rebellion.

Some things I'm told to do that I don't agree with. For example, no shorts for men. I'm not personally convicted for that. I believe that if a lady can wear a skirt to her calf or below her knee, then I should be able to wear shorts the same length.

But I obey my Pastor out of obedience. I believe a spirit of obedience is much better than a spirit of rebellion.

(By the way, I love my Pastor very much and he is far from a control freak.)

Bottom line. If you feel that dressing any way you want doesn't matter to the Lord, that's between you and Him. I'm not placing myself as the judge between you and your convictions. All I can say is that, personally, I feel God is pleased when I dress modestly, when my speech is clean, and when I'm living holy.

Godliness is profitable.

[tv1a]

Gotta love people who can articulate intelligently about a book they haven't read. Still waiting for that person to show up.

Originally Posted by BroJoe

In other words, it doesn't matter if I sin, it doesn't matter if I'm in the will of God, the grace supercedes and makes it all better for me.



You cannot earn righteousness, Romans 5 outlines this pretty well.




My personal standards are to keep me separate from the world and to please the Lord.

I will not say people who do not follow holiness are going to hell. But I will say that it is probably not pleasing to the Lord.

That's really what we should want to do...is please the Lord.

Remember, my good works are not counted to me as righteousness, but my good works are because of the debt that I owe Him. (See Romans 4:4)

[BroJoe]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Gotta love people who can articulate intelligently about a book they haven't read. Still waiting for that person to show up.

Thank you for your meek reply and correcting me.

Romans Chapter 3, not Romans Chapter 5. My mistake, will you forgive me?

[CC1]

Originally Posted by BroJoe

First off, Joseph Prince is a trinitarian "the grace of God covers everything" kind of preacher. I'd be very careful of opening my spirit to anyone who's not Apostolic.

Second, tell which Holiness standards you are referring to. Some people have different definitions.

Yup cause heaven knows Oneness people know everything and cannot possibly be ministered to by trinitarians.

[BroJoe]

Originally Posted by CC1

Yup cause heaven knows Oneness people know everything

I'm sorry if I inferred that "oneness people" know everything. But I do believe oneness apostolic pentecostals are the one's that got it nailed when it comes to the godhead.

and cannot possibly be ministered to by trinitarians.

God can use and talk to whomever He chooses. But we need to be very careful on who we allow to speak into our lives.

I have a saying. Who you allow speak in your life today, will shape your tomorrow.

You begin to allow trinitarians to speak into your life and allow them to mold you, you're getting a taste of something that's not real. We don't need something different, we don't need a new message. What we have here is a great message that's been preached since Acts 2.