Image of the Beast

[Father's Love]

Simple question what is the image of the beast spoken of in revelation? Is it the vision of the beast itself or is it something the Beast shows?

I ask because everyone I know says it is the beast itself, but I can also read it as the images the beasts show John in chapter 6. Which, to me, makes more sense.

[mfblume]

Compare Exodus with Revelation, and see how the golden calf was the image of the beast that Israel worshiped, while Moses was to bring down the law, which was to be bound to forehead and hand. Satan's answer to the law of God is his own law. Hence, he has mark on hand or forehead, too.

Revelation is using imagery not to be fulfilled literally, from the Old Testament.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Father's Love

Simple question what is the image of the beast spoken of in revelation? Is it the vision of the beast itself or is it something the Beast shows?

I ask because everyone I know says it is the beast itself, but I can also read it as the images the beasts show John in chapter 6. Which, to me, makes more sense.

Brother, many have tried to interpret the Beast and his image in many ways. We cannot truly be sure of what it is until it is real close....close enough for all to clearly identify. If that is the fact for you and I, then we missed the rapture and are victims of the great tribulation.

The Antichrist will not be revealed until the church is GONE.



2 Thessalonians 2
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And (then) shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

[COLOR="Red"]Brother, many have tried to interpret the Beast and his image in many ways. We cannot truly be sure of what it is until it is real close....close enough for all to clearly identify. If that is the fact for you and I, then we missed the rapture and are victims of the great tribulation.

Nothing in the bible says the church is gone before the beast arises. That is an INTERPRETATION. But we CAN KNOW.

In fact, John wrote to the church in the first century and said THEY could calculate the number of the beast and the number of HIS NAME. That meant the identity was something the FIRST CENTURY CHURCH could know. Otherwise he would never have made this statement:

Rev 13:18 KJV Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

If the beast could not be known in that day then why did John say the ones who "hath" -- not "are going to have," as though it is thousands of years away -- understanding can count (calculate) the number of the beast.

We we FORCE scriptures to fit into our theory or popular concept, we miss little details that these verses provide such as this one.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Sean

Brother, many have tried to interpret the Beast and his image in many ways. We cannot truly be sure of what it is until it is real close....close enough for all to clearly identify. If that is the fact for you and I, then we missed the rapture and are victims of the great tribulation.

The Antichrist will not be revealed until the church is GONE.



2 Thessalonians 2
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And (then) shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Gone except for these poor folks

7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them.

and these poor folks

25'He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. 26

This sounds like Nero right?

23 “He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.[b]

26 “‘But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’

I guess the Council of Nicea and subsequent rise of church rule after Nero wasn't really what the subsequent author was referring to though. Probably not.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Gone except for these poor folks

7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them.

and these poor folks

25'He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. 26

This sounds like Nero right?

23 “He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.[b]

26 “‘But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’

I guess the Council of Nicea and subsequent rise of church rule after Nero wasn't really what the subsequent author was referring to though. Probably not.

WII, how ya been? I think you bring an example of the type there--which i think might be all the Verse means to point to. A recurring type, perhaps.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Gone except for these poor folks

7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them.

and these poor folks These poor folks could be the 144, 000 Jews that are maryted.....Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. 6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. 7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. 8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.


Rev12...This may be the persecuted 144,000....13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 20....This may be the earthly demise of the 144,000.....and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.





25'He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. 26 (saints=144,000)?....probably.

This sounds like Nero right? NOPE

23 “He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.[b]

26 “‘But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’

I guess the Council of Nicea and subsequent rise of church rule after Nero wasn't really what the subsequent author was referring to though. Probably not.

Probably not is really absolutely not bro. All we got was a reign of Catholics representing Christianity for 2000 years....LOL(if it wasnt for the invention of the printing press, we would all still be Catholics and the Lords' kingdom would still be dominated by the Pope and his edicts)




I have already debated preterism and got run out of there by a crazy guy. I was immediately replaced the same day by pastor febus,,,LOL. See what happens when we run off the voice of reason?...LOL

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Sean

Probably not is really absolutely not bro. All we got was a reign of Catholics representing Christianity for 2000 years....LOL(if it wasnt for the invention of the printing press, we would all still be Catholics and the Lords' kingdom would still be dominated by the Pope and his edicts)




I have already debated preterism and got run out of there by a crazy guy. I was immediately replaced the same day by pastor febus,,,LOL. See what happens when we run off the voice of reason?...LOL

<grin> Things are improving.

After a 13-year investigation that I am sure was conducted in a most painstaking manner by the most brilliant scholars that the church has to offer Pope John Paul II finally pardoned Galileo! (and officially conceded that the earth, in fact, is not the center of the universe.

ROME, Oct. 31, 1991

Moving formally to rectify a wrong, Pope John Paul II acknowledged in a speech today that the Roman Catholic Church had erred in condemning Galileo 359 years ago for asserting that the Earth revolves around the Sun.

The address by the Pope before the Pontifical Academy of Sciences closed a 13-year investigation into the Church's condemnation of Galileo in 1633, one of history's most notorious conflicts between faith and science. Galileo was forced to recant his scientific findings to avoid being burned at the stake and spent the remaining eight years of his life under house arrest.

The Church eventually lifted the ban on Galileo's Dialogue in 1822, when it was common knowledge that the Earth was not the center of the Universe. Still later, there were statements by the Vatican Council in the early 1960's and in 1979 that implied that Galileo was pardoned, and that he had suffered at the hands of the Church. Finally, in 1992, three years after Galileo Galilei's namesake spacecraft had been launched on its way to Jupiter, the Vatican formally and publicly cleared Galileo of any wrongdoing.

On 31 October 1992, Pope John Paul II expressed regret for how the Galileo affair was handled, and officially conceded that the Earth was not stationary, as the result of a study conducted by the Pontifical Council for Culture.[104][105] Pope Benedict XVI later praised Galileo.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Sean

The Antichrist will not be revealed until the church is GONE.

2 Thessalonians 2
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And (then) shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

II Thes. 2:3 _ "...for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition..."... (v. 13) "For the mystery of iniquity does already work: only he who now lets will let, until he be taken out of the way."

The Church will see the falling away (apostasy) and the manifestation of the man of sin: but the world and disobedient will be blind to the truth.
The Holy Spirit will not be taken away, but out of the way, to allow sin to run its course.

The image of the beast will not be discerned except by those who are obedient in the Church, because it will be in man's image: totally carnal (animal) in the spirit, body, and soul!

[Sean]

I know, I know Mike, 666=N E R O.....LOL(been there, done that)



Better watch it, pastor febus is watching us...LOL