Once Saved Always Saved

[KeptByTheWord]

Our single widowed neighbor, who is a staunch Baptist, had a discussion with us where she said she believes in once saved always saved. We had a discussion about how we view it. She did not really have any scripture to back up her position, but said she was going home to study it, and present it to us at a later time.

What is the best way to refute this doctrine?

We took her to Revelation where Jesus was speaking to the churches, and it was quite obvious that they were believers, and yet he was rebuking them strongly, and if they didn't repent, he would "spue them out of his mouth". Her response to this was that they were never believers in the first place for this to happen. This is the card they play to get out of the concept of not being once saved always saved.

Any scriptures, pointers or ideas/concepts in which it can be discussed with her that we can't just live recklessly after our faith in Jesus, and still expect to be saved? She is not doing that of course - she loves the Lord dearly, and I believe the Lord has led her to come into our path to lead her to more truth. I just want to handle this carefully. She has been coming to our home group meetings, and she has expressed how wonderful it is to gather like this, and feel the sweet spirit of the Lord in our meetings. We believe the Lord wants to lead her on to greater truth.

[mfblume]

God wills that one be lost or perish. That shuts the whole thing down right there. If He wills none perish, then there is no such thing as Him willing only certain ones to be saved. OSAS believes God chooses not to save everyone, but only some ,and he chooses the rest to go to hell. They hate putting it that way, but that's what OSAS essentially is saying.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by mfblume

God wills that one be lost or perish. That shuts the whole thing down right there. If He wills none perish, then there is no such thing as Him willing only certain ones to be saved. OSAS believes God chooses not to save everyone, but only some ,and he chooses the rest to go to hell. They hate putting it that way, but that's what OSAS essentially is saying.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Ok thanks, Bro. MF. So, just to recap - essentially the Calvinist idea behind OSAS is that God determines who will be saved or lost, and if you are saved, you will be saved regardless of how you live, because God has determined you will be saved or go to hell.

But then the verse in Peter refutes that, because it says that God wills that none should perish, but all come to repentance.

This scripture speaks pretty solidly that one can lose their salvation, I think.

Heb. 10:26 "For if we sin wilfuly after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Ok thanks, Bro. MF. So, just to recap - essentially the Calvinist idea behind OSAS is that God determines who will be saved or lost, and if you are saved, you will be saved regardless of how you live, because God has determined you will be saved or go to hell.

But then the verse in Peter refutes that, because it says that God wills that none should perish, but all come to repentance.

This scripture speaks pretty solidly that one can lose their salvation, I think.

Heb. 10:26 "For if we sin wilfuly after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

Not all Baptists who believe OSAS are Calvinists. Many just simply believe once you get saved you cannot afterwards be lost regardless of what you do. Calvinists would reject such a notion.

Heb 10:26 is speaking about under the Mosaic economy presumptuous sin had no offering to take care of it. And there is no additional offering for us either if we sin presumptuously. But if we press it to mean once saved and you voluntarily sin you face judgment, then we are in effect saying nobody will be saved, for who can say they NEVER ONCE SINNED after becoming a Christian?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Hebrews 6:4-8 utterly refutes OSAS.

Romans 11:20-21 does likewise.

Originally Posted by Esaias

Not all Baptists who believe OSAS are Calvinists. Many just simply believe once you get saved you cannot afterwards be lost regardless of what you do. Calvinists would reject such a notion.

Heb 10:26 is speaking about under the Mosaic economy presumptuous sin had no offering to take care of it. And there is no additional offering for us either if we sin presumptuously. But if we press it to mean once saved and you voluntarily sin you face judgment, then we are in effect saying nobody will be saved, for who can say they NEVER ONCE SINNED after becoming a Christian?

We don't always agree politically, ( ) but I do agree with you here!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

We don't always agree politically, ( ) but I do agree with you here!

Well, we'll have to work on that political business...

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Hebrews 6:4-8 utterly refutes OSAS.

Romans 11:20-21 does likewise.

Originally Posted by Esaias

Not all Baptists who believe OSAS are Calvinists. Many just simply believe once you get saved you cannot afterwards be lost regardless of what you do. Calvinists would reject such a notion.

Heb 10:26 is speaking about under the Mosaic economy presumptuous sin had no offering to take care of it. And there is no additional offering for us either if we sin presumptuously. But if we press it to mean once saved and you voluntarily sin you face judgment, then we are in effect saying nobody will be saved, for who can say they NEVER ONCE SINNED after becoming a Christian?

I do understand that much like the Trinity, there can be a vast difference of what people believe in such doctrines as the Trinity, OSAS, and so on.

I am not trying to make this a hill to live or die on for our friendship and fellowship, but I just wanted to be aware of the various scriptures, and ideas that are born out of this OSAS doctrine, to be informed. She wants to discuss it, and so, I need to know. If she is open to seeing it in a different light, I would like to be prepared.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by mfblume

God wills that one be lost or perish. That shuts the whole thing down right there. If He wills none perish, then there is no such thing as Him willing only certain ones to be saved. OSAS believes God chooses not to save everyone, but only some ,and he chooses the rest to go to hell. They hate putting it that way, but that's what OSAS essentially is saying.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

That is not what OSAS believe but those that believe in predestation.

I have most of mine and my husbands family are Baptist
And they are adament about it.

God told Moses He would blot out the names He would blot out. (Paraphrased)

This tells me you can't be OSAS.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esther

That is not what OSAS believe but those that believe in predestation.

I have most of mine and my husbands family are Baptist
And they are adament about it.

God told Moses He would blot out the names He would blot out. (Paraphrased)

This tells me you can't be OSAS.

Osas and predestination go hand in hand, though.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Esther

That is not what OSAS believe but those that believe in predestation.

I have most of mine and my husbands family are Baptist
And they are adament about it.

God told Moses He would blot out the names He would blot out. (Paraphrased)

This tells me you can't be OSAS.

They have the little card that they play, as I've heard it before this encounter - that if you willfully sin and go back to the "world", then you never were saved to begin with.

That idea is not supported in scripture, namely using the scripture that Esaias provided, Heb. 6:4-8. We can lose our salvation simply by slacking off, and not allowing the mind of Christ to rule in our hearts and lives.