If you have to wear make-up to be accepted....

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Here is the chainsaw cutting to the bone of the issue.

Shockingly, I agree IN PRINCIPLE, but not with rules.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Amen Sister Bontrager, amen!

I love Emma, but I have trouble finding her conflicted spirit now.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by ILG

Shockingly, I agree IN PRINCIPLE, but not with rules.

Could you expound on the above comment?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by ILG

I love Emma, but I have trouble finding her conflicted spirit now.

I will keep her in prayer.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Could you expound on the above comment?

Yes. I believe that the Bible teaches principles, not uniform rules.

For example, the Bible teaches "I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes" as a godly example. The rule says "No TV" but some people will not have a TV and then watch porn on the internet. They will follow the rule, but not the principle. On the other hand, some will live by the principle and be careful of all things they set in front of their eyes, weighing FOR THEMSELVES, whether or not something breaks this principle. And the lines will be drawn differently for different families and people because some families will feel comfortable with some things and not others based on their personal experiences and the like.

In like manner, every biblical principle can be applied in this way....modesty for women, what headship means to a family, whether a woman being a "keeper of the home" means no job outside for her or whether it means a more egalitarian approach.

People can believe largely in biblical principles, loosely applied. I think rules help hide sin inside the camp because then you get rule followers who "measure up" to the rules but are not living biblical principles, thus, there is improper judging happening in both accepting those who are not true people of God in the church and pushing those out who are.

I think preachers should teach principles and run far away from rules.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I will keep her in prayer.

We made an Emma Bontrager video about 7 years ago and could never figure out how to upload it. If I can ever figure that out, you will get to see the one and only Emma Bontrager video ever made! It was during the "Apostolic Idol" contest that never happened.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by ILG

Yes. I believe that the Bible teaches principles, not uniform rules.

For example, the Bible teaches "I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes" as a godly example. The rule says "No TV" but some people will not have a TV and then watch porn on the internet. They will follow the rule, but not the principle. On the other hand, some will live by the principle and be careful of all things they set in front of their eyes, weighing FOR THEMSELVES, whether or not something breaks this principle. And the lines will be drawn differently for different families and people because some families will feel comfortable with some things and not others based on their personal experiences and the like.

In like manner, every biblical principle can be applied in this way....modesty for women, what headship means to a family, whether a woman being a "keeper of the home" means no job outside for her or whether it means a more egalitarian approach.

People can believe largely in biblical principles, loosely applied. I think rules help hide sin inside the camp because then you get rule followers who "measure up" to the rules but are not living biblical principles, thus, there is improper judging happening in both accepting those who are not true people of God in the church and pushing those out who are.

I think preachers should teach principles and run far away from rules.

And this is how I see it as well. Principles, not application, should be the topic that is addressed. You expressed the differences very well, ILG!

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by ILG

We made an Emma Bontrager video about 7 years ago and could never figure out how to upload it. If I can ever figure that out, you will get to see the one and only Emma Bontrager video ever made! It was during the "Apostolic Idol" contest that never happened.

That would be really neat to see, if you could get it to work!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by ILG

Yes. I believe that the Bible teaches principles, not uniform rules.

For example, the Bible teaches "I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes" as a godly example. The rule says "No TV" but some people will not have a TV and then watch porn on the internet. They will follow the rule, but not the principle. On the other hand, some will live by the principle and be careful of all things they set in front of their eyes, weighing FOR THEMSELVES, whether or not something breaks this principle. And the lines will be drawn differently for different families and people because some families will feel comfortable with some things and not others based on their personal experiences and the like.

In like manner, every biblical principle can be applied in this way....modesty for women, what headship means to a family, whether a woman being a "keeper of the home" means no job outside for her or whether it means a more egalitarian approach.

People can believe largely in biblical principles, loosely applied. I think rules help hide sin inside the camp because then you get rule followers who "measure up" to the rules but are not living biblical principles, thus, there is improper judging happening in both accepting those who are not true people of God in the church and pushing those out who are.

I think preachers should teach principles and run far away from rules.

Touche!

Wonderful post!

Bravo!

I have always taught that "who you are in the dark is really who you are."

Teaching you shouldn't own a television, or never have a computer which has Internet access, isn't as bad as a person's mind going places where if the people around them knew what was on their minds they would be horrified.

Israel were champions of being able to feign living for God with an uncircumcised heart. True legalism isn't a brother who love long sleeves or a sister who loves wearing her head covering bonnet, but those who come to church with false piety and praise the Lord, then go back home to beat their kids, wife, and cat.

Sometimes good citizens ponder in their hearts what serial killers act out in real life.

Bob Coy at Calvary Chapel in Fort Lauderdale built a church from a small group to 20,000 people, but he was looking at internet porn, and having relations with the women of his congregation.

Now, he didn't teach against television, internet, beards, hairstyles, jewelry, pagan holidays, but for whatever reason he lost sight of principles and no longer had rules for himself. He not only betrayed his wife, and children, but himself.

Yet, every religion has principles which become rules, like not looking at pornography.

You don't get up behind the pulpit (unless moved by Jesus Christ) and tell everyone in a congregation that they shouldn't be downloading porn, or operating a porn website while you're being a "keeper of the home."

These things don't have to be agreed upon in Churchdom because its supposed to be against our religion?

Right?

If Ted and Fred come to church and want to live for God, but also want to stay cozed up together on the first pew, MOST people in the Church of the Run of the Mill would have issue with that, but where's the written RULE?

Issues of modesty didn't come out of thin air, nor did television issues come out of thin air, but those who first put the television issue on the books would be puking their guts up if they saw preachers on the Internet, why because internet makes television look like its heaven sent. Still if asked why you wouldn't go to certain places on the web, you would reply because you don't do that. Someone outside of your religion would call that a rule.

Principles are what I was taught by my atheist father, and my agnostic mother. They weren't swinging a Bible, my mom wasn't dressed like Emma, but they taught principles that would be considered conservative.

Any rule is a joke when the heart isn't right, even an offering given to the church is tainted if not given freely and with a cheerful mind to give it. We are taught to love those who hate us, forgive those who kill us, and to lay down our lives for our brothers. Yet, this isn't a condition of only Apostolic One God movement, but it is churches all over the place. Principles have been watered down, rules caused by principles are feigned, and the world is watching this country speed towards post Churchism like her Western European sister.

Principles inevitably cause rules, like don't download porn or Ted should not want to marry Fred. But if the principles are skewed then the rules are no longer there. Anyone claiming they follow the rules become a fig tree which bares no fruit, which is cursed not by man, but by Christ.

You can take a killer, dress him up, send him to rehabilitation school, and he will still kill the teacher. Washing a pig doesn't change the pig's mind, and giving pearls to a dog doesn't change the dog's mind. giving a list of rules with no principles behind those rules is just a formula for disaster.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by ILG

We made an Emma Bontrager video about 7 years ago and could never figure out how to upload it. If I can ever figure that out, you will get to see the one and only Emma Bontrager video ever made! It was during the "Apostolic Idol" contest that never happened.

Do it.