Just How Complicated and Convoluted Can We Make it

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

No sir.

Neither one of them had the Holy Ghost.

I know this argument has been going on for a bit and I'm just now jumping i, so please forgive me if I end up covering some ground that others have already revealed.

First of all, Jesus is the Savior. Not me, not you, not anyone else except Jesus. This is what notofworks was saying. Since it is Jesus Who save, just who do you think you are when you claim to know of certainty the eternal destination of the souls of men who preached the Gospel 200 years before you were ever born? On what basis do you so (arrogantly?) proclaim that John Wesley "didn't have the Holy Ghost?"

I won't be so presumptuous as to presume whether or not John Wesley was saved. I find a lot to agree with in his writings and whole lot that I disagree with, but I still sense that it was a "brother" who penned those words so long ago. Similar things can be said of the others who were named... except maybe Elvis, dunno. But of all the individuals that were named, Elvis was probably the most likely to have followed your complicated "Three Step" plan.

Jesus saves, Appie. He's a whole lot better at that than you or I.

[Apprehended]

We will just have to agree to disagree regardless how arrogant, pompous and judgmental that you might think of me. Nevertheless, there is not one, no not one glimmer of truth is anyone who have inculcated and cemented the Trinity lie within their spirit man. It is the darkest of dark.

No, it is my opinion that none can go to heaven saying ONE God while in their spirit man they are thinking "three." The spirit man will be open, unclothed by the facade of the natural man. There their thoughts will be known. They will be told that there are no three persons in heaven called God. Unable to repent, they will be allowed to wander around for awhile. After finding no heaven with thee persons called God, they will find it increasingly difficult to respire being tortured by the light from heaven, they see a way to darkness to find relief. Plunging headlong to hide from the heat and life that does not comport with their life, they are received in the dark after which they will be told that they can never exit there.

So sad.

[Michael The Disciple]

Bro. Strange,

You probably dont remember me. We had various discussions when you were here before and on other forums and some things we disagreed on. I like you believe Acts 2:38 is the basic plan of salvation.

You have shown maturity and restraint on this thread. It has become typical on AFF that anyone who has three step views or any convictions of holiness is railed and mocked. When I started on these forums there was someone called "Thad" who had a list of people he considered "Pentecostal" or "Charismatic".

I was on his list as a Charismatic. Fast forward a few years. Now tho I have not changed my beliefs in those years the make up of this forum is so different I am considered by some here as what they call an "ultra con".

Its getting harder and harder to try to converse here but perhaps it will work for you I hope so. If I am passionate about a topic I will still give it a shot. Not planning to cut all ties here but spending less time makes sense for me.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Bro. Strange,

You probably dont remember me. We had various discussions when you were here before and on other forums and some things we disagreed on. I like you believe Acts 2:38 is the basic plan of salvation.

You have shown maturity and restraint on this thread. It has become typical on AFF that anyone who has three step views or any convictions of holiness is railed and mocked. When I started on these forums there was someone called "Thad" who had a list of people he considered "Pentecostal" or "Charismatic".

I was on his list as a Charismatic. Fast forward a few years. Now tho I have not changed my beliefs in those years the make up of this forum is so different I am considered by some here as what they call an "ultra con".

Its getting harder and harder to try to converse here but perhaps it will work for you I hope so. If I am passionate about a topic I will still give it a shot. Not planning to cut all ties here but spending less time makes sense for me.

I do remember you. I am glad to see that you are still here.

The older I get, the more ultra-con I am becoming. I see better than ever how the way is straightened. Just every old junker is not going to go puking and vomiting through the gates of that Holy City where Jesus is worshiped as the Almighty God for ever.

I laid on my bed unable to sleep a few nights ago, pleading that God by the power of His Spirit will place in me a great horror of sin, ungodliness and of worldliness. Of course, I am a slobbering cry baby anyway. I pleaded that I would become so shocked and horrified by every kind of ungodliness that I would be thrown around in revulsion.

Too many of God's people, while claiming salvation and even holiness, are now smiling and winking at the serpent. Trust me, the dragon is pleased with the attention and the apparent secret affection.

As far me, I am determined to run to the light as fervently as I can, loving both the Good and the Truth by which I have found a wisdom that is not of this world.

Whatever love of holiness and truth remaining in you, love it and cultivate it to let it grow up in you to become like Jesus.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

We will just have to agree to disagree regardless how arrogant, pompous and judgmental that you might think of me. Nevertheless, there is not one, no not one glimmer of truth is anyone who have inculcated and cemented the Trinity lie within their spirit man. It is the darkest of dark.

No, it is my opinion that none can go to heaven saying ONE God while in their spirit man they are thinking "three." The spirit man will be open, unclothed by the facade of the natural man. There their thoughts will be known. They will be told that there are no three persons in heaven called God. Unable to repent, they will be allowed to wander around for awhile. After finding no heaven with thee persons called God, they will find it increasingly difficult to respire being tortured by the light from heaven, they see a way to darkness to find relief. Plunging headlong to hide from the heat and life that does not comport with their life, they are received in the dark after which they will be told that they can never exit there.

So sad.

This post is sad. It doesn't even make sense.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

I do remember you. I am glad to see that you are still here.

The older I get, the more ultra-con I am becoming. I see better than ever how the way is straightened. Just every old junker is not going to go puking and vomiting through the gates of that Holy City where Jesus is worshiped as the Almighty God for ever.

I laid on my bed unable to sleep a few nights ago, pleading that God by the power of His Spirit will place in me a great horror of sin, ungodliness and of worldliness. Of course, I am a slobbering cry baby anyway. I pleaded that I would become so shocked and horrified by every kind of ungodliness that I would be thrown around in revulsion.

Too many of God's people, while claiming salvation and even holiness, are now smiling and winking at the serpent. Trust me, the dragon is pleased with the attention and the apparent secret affection.
As far me, I am determined to run to the light as fervently as I can, loving both the Good and the Truth by which I have found a wisdom that is not of this world.

Whatever love of holiness and truth remaining in you, love it and cultivate it to let it grow up in you to become like Jesus.

Where are you getting this stuff?? I suppose the "Dragon" is talking to you now.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

We will just have to agree to disagree regardless how arrogant, pompous and judgmental that you might think of me. Nevertheless, there is not one, no not one glimmer of truth is anyone who have inculcated and cemented the Trinity lie within their spirit man. It is the darkest of dark.

No, it is my opinion that none can go to heaven saying ONE God while in their spirit man they are thinking "three." The spirit man will be open, unclothed by the facade of the natural man. There their thoughts will be known. They will be told that there are no three persons in heaven called God. Unable to repent, they will be allowed to wander around for awhile. After finding no heaven with thee persons called God, they will find it increasingly difficult to respire being tortured by the light from heaven, they see a way to darkness to find relief. Plunging headlong to hide from the heat and life that does not comport with their life, they are received in the dark after which they will be told that they can never exit there.

So sad.

Personally, I have a hard time getting my mind around the idea of "Three Gods" and such. I wonder how anyone could possibly believe such a thing. After spending many years investigating and listening to other believers, I began to realize that very, very few "Trinitarians" actually believe in "Three Gods."

Most struggle and wrestle, using their finite mortal minds, trying to comprehend an infinite God. Since this discussion has been going on for centuries, the problem is compounded because, at various times in history, we have lost the meaning of older words. One example is the word "person" - coined by Tertullian.

Tertullian didn't use the word "Person" the way we use the word today. He coined the word from the Etruscan (and Greek) word for a theater mask. This mask was the visible "face" from which the voice of the actor was heard to emanate - (the "-son" in "person" is the same root as "sound" or "sonic"). Though the mask or role of the actor may change in the course of an ancient play, the actor himself was also was the same guy - or "person" in the sense that we mean "person" today.

Ironically, even though he coined much of the Latin verbiage behind the Doctrine of the Trinity and is hailed as a "Doctor of the Church" by many, Tertullian himself was no Trinitarian. I think that you might find many more such surprises if you were to allow yourself to listen to the voices of others, especially your "Trinitarian" brothers. Don't approach them confrontationally. Approach them with a sense of mutual respect and you just might find more brethren than you imagined.

[Michael The Disciple]

Pelitais said:

I think that you might find many more such surprises if you were to allow yourself to listen to the voices of others, especially your "Trinitarian" brothers. Don't approach them confrontationally. Approach them with a sense of mutual respect and you just might find more brethren than you imagined

.

I spend some time on a Trinitarian forum. I have had some good discussions with people there. However rule no. 1 on their forum is NO DISCUSSING ONENESS DOCTRINE.

So its not a matter of how I approach them. There is no approach. So where is the mutual respect? Yet having said that I probably get more respect there than I do here. lol!

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

.

I spend some time on a Trinitarian forum. I have had some good discussions with people there. However rule no. 1 on their forum is NO DISCUSSING ONENESS DOCTRINE.

So its not a matter of how I approach them. There is no approach. So where is the mutual respect? Yet having said that I probably get more respect there than I do here. lol!

Maybe you need to get offline and out more, Michael. (LOL - look who's talking, right?)

But seriously, an online forum - especially one geared up for debate - will, over time, develop whatever "rules" it needs to make the lives of the admins easier. Apparently, these guys got burned out with "Oneness people." It would seem that someone else had already "approached" them and possibly left some problems. Or, it could be that the admins are particularly thin-skinned. Dunno.

But the vast amount of trinnies that I know could actually pass as "Oneness" if all of the confrontation, creeds and extra-biblical language was dropped.

[Apprehended]

No trini will say three Gods. They will say ONE God thinking three persons each being God.

There is no light there. It is all darkness and is an abomination, the first of the three unclean frogs of Rev. 16. It is the grand abomination that desolated the early church.

Such will not enter into heaven. There will be no possibility of changing their minds, that is to repent of error.

ev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Rev 22:15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

My speech is very mild compared to the speech of the prophets. I care about people's souls, thus, I will leave them no room to consider that they might enter into the gates of the heavenly Jerusalem.

They are not my brethren for they have neither been born again of the water and of the Spirit according to Jn. 3:5. Except a man is thus born, he cannot enter into heaven.

For all whom I have spoken too, there can be no doubt about what is the truth though I suffer the reproach of the gospel. Call me unkind if you wish but it would be far better for me to be considered unkind, uncaring and even unfriendly than to let them drop into hell to be lost forever.

A preacher that is unclear in his message leaving a sinner feeling comfortable in his sin, is as guilty as the sinner himself. He will give an account for his fool hearty disposition of the gospel before men.

I'm done here.

Bye.