Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

[Sister Alvear]

Only the prejudiced believer would say Paul did not have women ministers with him. Some would say the women were along to cook, sew, etc., but not participating in preaching. Maybe they were making tea and coffee or washing the preacher’s clothes. But please note that Clement, a man, was doing the same thing because his name was mentioned with the women.

There is no hint in these passages that Paul regarded the work of these women as in any way inferior to his own. If we must always dwell on the disobedience of one woman, and blame her for the fall, then should we not equally dwell on the fact that it was the obedience of one woman that brought redemption to humanity?

If we want to use I Corinthians 14:34, Let the women keep silence, and forbid one half of the human family forever from proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ, why not let other expressions like Habakkuk 2:20 silence the other half. It says: Let all the earth keep a silence before him. Jeremiah 8:14, God hath put us to silence. Zechariah 2:13, "Be silent, O all flesh before the Lord."

We know that there is a difference in the original word in I Corinthians 14 and I Timothy. The same word of I Timothy is translated "quietness" in 2 Thessalonians 3:12 where Paul says, Awe command and exhort that with quietness they work and eat their own bread." No one interprets this passage to mean that Paul was commanding men to be dumb when going about their work, but only that they do their job without making fuss about it.



And so with the women, in fact nor "to usurp authority over the man" does occur in the original. But even so, it is no problem either way because usurp meant "to take someone else’s power, position, job when you do not have the right to." I do not believe any godly woman tries to do this.

I Corinthians 14 and I Timothy contain no reference to women sent out to preach the gospel by the call of God’s Spirit. Let us continue to study what law Paul was citing from.

The very reason the Holy Ghost was given was to equip us with power to be witnesses. In Acts 2 when the Holy Ghost fell from heaven the very first time, it fell upon both men and women (Acts 1:14-15).

If women were to be in silence in the church as some say, then they could not receive the Holy Ghost. For one must speak in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance. So in Acts 2, we have both men and women speaking in tongues. Paul could not have been quoting from Biblical Law in First Corinthians 14:34.

Some will say if the apostle quoted it, he endorsed it. Paul quoted not to endorse it, but to rebuke it, to reject it, to deny its authority on a Biblical basis. It was not a command to the church and not a law to be obeyed by Christian women.

Notice what he said in verses 35 and 36. This is the language of Judaizers at Corinth. Paul answered back in the words; "What? Came the word of God out from you? Or came it unto you only?" In other words, I did not teach you this. What I write are commandments (NOT THE TALMUD). Paul taught that a woman could pray out loud, could prophecy, and could preach.

We must comprehend the background of the New Testament Church that was mixed with Jews and Gentiles. Even the converted Jews still observed the Talmud. They believed it was inspired scripture and fought against Paul. The greatest battle of Paul’s ministry was fighting against the Judaizers. They were "a thorn in the flesh" to Paul. He fought against them in every church established. This doctrine had come into the Corinth church and they were teaching something Paul had not taught them. For this reason, he said the word of God came not out from you but to you. In others words, I don’t bring this doctrine.

We must understand the problems at Corinth concerning the Talmud that Paul was trying to solve. The Jews continued believing the Talmud and still believe in it today! But the Talmud was not inspired, not in the days of Paul nor in our day; and never was! It was purely a commentary on what they thought the Torah said.

These attitudes from Judaism passed into Christianity. On other occasions, these Judaizers questioned Paul’s right to be an apostle. They said only the twelve were apostles; Paul was not included. They also did not like Paul’s stand on women preachers (I Corinthians 9:1-6).

Paul had to defend his right to be an apostle. They were teaching things Moses did not teach. I Corinthians 9:1-3 and I Corinthians 5:9, show it was a letter. Remember Paul withstood Peter on occasion because Peter wanted to put women back under the law. In I Corinthians 15, Paul gave a list to prove the resurrection of Jesus. In the list, he did not mention a woman. Why? He could not; their feelings were so strong against that in the church at Corinth, and so implanted in them were the laws of the Talmud, he could not mention a woman.

What a shame when it was the women who first discovered that Christ had risen. It was to the women that Jesus had said, "Go and tell that I have risen."

No matter how good a preacher you are you are only repeating a story that Jesus told the women to tell. For if it would not have been for His resurrection, His victory over death, hell, and the grave, we could not be where we are today. That is the core of the gospel. So put your guns aside, beat your swords into plowshares and your spears into pruning hooks, and let’s get on with evangelizing the world.

Do not be guilty of setting yourself up as God - deciding whose mouth to open or close. Don’t let the resurrection message that we must carry to the Four Corners of the world get diluted with sour feelings over who takes the message to the lost.

While preachers spend enormous energy debating and deciding who will be the one to carry the gospel, the devil laughs and continues working full speed ahead toward his purpose, and if we are not careful, we’ll help him do it!

[Sister Alvear]

Only the prejudiced believer would say Paul did not have women ministers with him. Some would say the women were along to cook, sew, etc., but not participating in preaching. Maybe they were making tea and coffee or washing the preacher’s clothes. But please note that Clement, a man, was doing the same thing because his name was mentioned with the women.

There is no hint in these passages that Paul regarded the work of these women as in any way inferior to his own. If we must always dwell on the disobedience of one woman, and blame her for the fall, then should we not equally dwell on the fact that it was the obedience of one woman that brought redemption to humanity?

If we want to use I Corinthians 14:34, Let the women keep silence, and forbid one half of the human family forever from proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ, why not let other expressions like Habakkuk 2:20 silence the other half. It says: Let all the earth keep a silence before him. Jeremiah 8:14, God hath put us to silence. Zechariah 2:13, "Be silent, O all flesh before the Lord."

We know that there is a difference in the original word in I Corinthians 14 and I Timothy. The same word of I Timothy is translated "quietness" in 2 Thessalonians 3:12 where Paul says, Awe command and exhort that with quietness they work and eat their own bread." No one interprets this passage to mean that Paul was commanding men to be dumb when going about their work, but only that they do their job without making fuss about it.



And so with the women, in fact nor "to usurp authority over the man" does occur in the original. But even so, it is no problem either way because usurp meant "to take someone else’s power, position, job when you do not have the right to." I do not believe any godly woman tries to do this.

I Corinthians 14 and I Timothy contain no reference to women sent out to preach the gospel by the call of God’s Spirit. Let us continue to study what law Paul was citing from.

The very reason the Holy Ghost was given was to equip us with power to be witnesses. In Acts 2 when the Holy Ghost fell from heaven the very first time, it fell upon both men and women (Acts 1:14-15).

If women were to be in silence in the church as some say, then they could not receive the Holy Ghost. For one must speak in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance. So in Acts 2, we have both men and women speaking in tongues. Paul could not have been quoting from Biblical Law in First Corinthians 14:34.

Some will say if the apostle quoted it, he endorsed it. Paul quoted not to endorse it, but to rebuke it, to reject it, to deny its authority on a Biblical basis. It was not a command to the church and not a law to be obeyed by Christian women.

Notice what he said in verses 35 and 36. This is the language of Judaizers at Corinth. Paul answered back in the words; "What? Came the word of God out from you? Or came it unto you only?" In other words, I did not teach you this. What I write are commandments (NOT THE TALMUD). Paul taught that a woman could pray out loud, could prophecy, and could preach.

We must comprehend the background of the New Testament Church that was mixed with Jews and Gentiles. Even the converted Jews still observed the Talmud. They believed it was inspired scripture and fought against Paul. The greatest battle of Paul’s ministry was fighting against the Judaizers. They were "a thorn in the flesh" to Paul. He fought against them in every church established. This doctrine had come into the Corinth church and they were teaching something Paul had not taught them. For this reason, he said the word of God came not out from you but to you. In others words, I don’t bring this doctrine.

We must understand the problems at Corinth concerning the Talmud that Paul was trying to solve. The Jews continued believing the Talmud and still believe in it today! But the Talmud was not inspired, not in the days of Paul nor in our day; and never was! It was purely a commentary on what they thought the Torah said.

These attitudes from Judaism passed into Christianity. On other occasions, these Judaizers questioned Paul’s right to be an apostle. They said only the twelve were apostles; Paul was not included. They also did not like Paul’s stand on women preachers (I Corinthians 9:1-6).

Paul had to defend his right to be an apostle. They were teaching things Moses did not teach. I Corinthians 9:1-3 and I Corinthians 5:9, show it was a letter. Remember Paul withstood Peter on occasion because Peter wanted to put women back under the law. In I Corinthians 15, Paul gave a list to prove the resurrection of Jesus. In the list, he did not mention a woman. Why? He could not; their feelings were so strong against that in the church at Corinth, and so implanted in them were the laws of the Talmud, he could not mention a woman.

What a shame when it was the women who first discovered that Christ had risen. It was to the women that Jesus had said, "Go and tell that I have risen."

No matter how good a preacher you are you are only repeating a story that Jesus told the women to tell. For if it would not have been for His resurrection, His victory over death, hell, and the grave, we could not be where we are today. That is the core of the gospel. So put your guns aside, beat your swords into plowshares and your spears into pruning hooks, and let’s get on with evangelizing the world.

Do not be guilty of setting yourself up as God - deciding whose mouth to open or close. Don’t let the resurrection message that we must carry to the Four Corners of the world get diluted with sour feelings over who takes the message to the lost.

While preachers spend enormous energy debating and deciding who will be the one to carry the gospel, the devil laughs and continues working full speed ahead toward his purpose, and if we are not careful, we’ll help him do it!

[Sister Alvear]

Why crush the tongue that could tell a liberating message to captives? Do you realize God’s people that are God’s messengers carry the only light left for this dark, sinful world? Why try to snuff out a part of it?

We have the only lasting hope, the only real miracle, the only eternal promise, and yet some of our methods resemble India’s Castle System.

It was the Pharisees that always stood on their feet. They muttered and ground that truth belonged to them only and they only had a right to spread it. They pulled their long self-righteous, cloaks around them and condemned the innocent. But did you notice Jesus never condemned - except those that condemned?


Jesus’ friends did not meet the religious standards of the Pharisees for His friends were unlearned fishermen, the tax collector, the adulterous woman, the Samaritan woman. But it was to these and others like these that Jesus pointed down roads of time and said, "Go unto all the world and preach...Go, and tell that I have risen."

Let’s go back to Paul referring to the Talmud. No doubt Paul was citing from a letter received from the people at the church of Corinth and he quoted or recited a part of it. You may say how strange. Not really. He did the same thing in Athens. If he agreed, he told it, if he didn’t agree, he told us this also.

Notice once again, I Timothy 2:11-12 where we read again the word silence. This time its usage is different than in I Corinthians 14. This time in Greek it means quietness, humility. We all agree that a meek and quiet spirit is beautiful. We do believe that woman has domestic duties, and before she can be a preacher, she must obey her domestic duties according to the Bible; just as a man has domestic duties and it he doesn’t provide for his family, he too is not qualified to preach the gospel.

A holy woman of God would not think of being disobedient and unruly. I Timothy 2:15: Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. In the Greek it says giving birth would save her.

The birth of our Savior came through a woman. He was made of a woman.

We are living in the first fruits generation where we are experiencing a part of the glorious liberty that will be for all women. In the millennium there will be neither male nor female, we will all have glorified bodies like the angels. Sons of God, children of the resurrection, male and female, overcomers, reigning with him just like his original plan. Just like the Garden of Eden.

Complete liberty will be in the millennium; we have the first fruits of it now! May God forgive each one that may think those verses in Corinthians quoted from the Talmud represents the law of God for women in this dispensation. John 8:36: If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

In contrast with the many passages that portray male disciples as lacking faith, the gospels contain only positive images of women with the single exception of Herodias.

Jesus saw everyone as "individuals not valuable males, and valueless females. It seems Jesus was gender blind! It’s important to note that in Matthew and Mark the angel of the Lord sent the women to tell the male disciples that Jesus had risen. And in Matthew and John, Jesus Himself sent them on the mission. The woman acted for Him as an apostle or as ones that are sent to bear witness of the gospel.

Preachers who oppose women preaching the gospel are guilty of preaching the Talmud, i.e. the Kabbalah. It is the Kabbalah that view Jews as a superior race and the male as the superior sex.

[Sister Alvear]

Someone justifying his belief that men only could preach the gospel, said that preachers under the law of circumcision were all men. But remember baptism is for both men and women. What circumcision once represented under the Law, baptism now represents for us (both male and female) today (Revelation 1:6 Luke 20:35).
The difference in the priesthood and the ministry is that a person had to be born into the priesthood. Today, we are not born into the ministry but called into the ministry. The only priest in the Old Testament that was "called" was Aaron (Hebrew 5:4). The Levitical priesthood was abolished at Calvary.
Others have said He chose men only for disciples,. Well, they were Jews! Would that same reasoning mean that only Jewish men could be preachers? Of course not! O consistency thou art a jewel! He chose Jacob (younger), not Esau. He chose Moses instead of Aaron. He chose David instead of his brothers, and the list goes on. God does not work by man’s ideas, but He chooses whom He will.

[Sister Alvear]

Some have said, Sis. Alvear, in synagogue services, women were not allowed to sit with the men. Yes, I know that; but when Christianity came there was no separation and no barriers. All became one in Christ Jesus (I Corinthians 7:19; Galatians 3:28; I Corinthians 12:13; Galatians 5:7-8).
It was the Pharisees and Sadducees that believed the woman to be inferior. Jesus was different. He did not hesitate to call a woman daughter of Abraham (Luke 13:16).
Jesus broke every tradition, crossed the boundary line and astonished them with His doctrine. Jesus does not condone one human being superior to another. He does not make slaves. He makes those who are enslaved, free!

[Sister Alvear]

A group of Branhamite people told me that they thought 1Corinthians 14:34 meant a woman couldn’t preach. In Brazil, (I don’t know about in the States) they believe in speaking in tongues, singing, and much more. I asked them if their women received the Holy Ghost. Their answer was yes. I asked them how could they receive the Holy Ghost in silence? Well, of course they didn’t know that answer. Neither do they know a lot other answers to what I classify as a doctrine invented in hell.
Perversion of a woman’s role was surely schemed up by the devil himself. In one of the Branham's books, I read the words that the woman was made to be low, dirty, and vile (Portuguese). Men were to be like one rooster in the chicken pen or one bull among the many cows.
One false doctrine leads to another one. Just as they have no proof that I Corinthians 14:34 means that a woman can’t preach, neither have they any proof or grounds for the serpent seed doctrine.
Tears fill my eyes to see the homes that have split up because of their rib message.
Jeremiah 9:17: "Thus saith the Lord of hosts, consider ye and call for the mourning women, that they come and send for cunning women that they come, and let them make haste, and take up a wailing for us."
Since cunning may be translated "wise" in Hebrew, we understand that Jehovah called upon the wise women to show interest and concern in matters of State (Huldah, II Kings 22:14). Admittedly the wisest prophet of all times may still have been living at this very time.

[Sister Alvear]

Dr. Adam Clark gives this literal translation of Psalms 68:11: Of the female preachers, there was a great host.

Isaiah 40:9: Dr. Clark’s literal translation is also enlightening, AO daughter that bring good tidings to Zion, get thee up into the high mountain. O thou woman that publishes good tidings to Jerusalem, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid, say unto the city of Judah, Behold your God.”

Here is a list of translations of Psalms 68:11. One can certainly draw strength from. “The Lord giveth the word, the women that published the tiding are a great host” (Psalm 68:11 ASV).

“The Lord gives the word (of power): the women who bear and publish (the news) are a great host” (Amp. Bible).

“The Lord proclaims good news, or the word, women bearing good news” (New English Bible).

“The Lord gives the word; women bear the glad tidings” [a Vast Army] (New American Bible).

“The Lord gave matter to the women to tell of the great army” (The Geneva Bible).

“The Lord gave the command and many women carried the news” (The Good News Bible).

“When the Lord sent news of victory, the women who told it were a mighty host” (James Moffatts Translation).

The word “publish” in Hebrew is “basar” (Strong’s 1319), which means “to announce (glad news); messenger, preach, publish and shewforth.”

The Bible teaches a “vast army” of women proclaimers. According to Strong’s 6635, it means “A mass of persons.”

[jfrog]

Here is a list of the post 2000 Bible versions that I have available (and their earlier counterparts if possible): ESV 2001, NIV 1984, NIV 2010, TNIV 2005 NLT 2007, ISV 2008*, MSG 2002* (The Message).

Versions I am missing that I would like to see Romans 16:7 in: NLT 1996. I am wondering if they used Junias in the earlier version and Junia in the later version like the NIV did.

So what did I find? I found that of all those versions the only 2 that used the name Junias are the ISV and the MSG. The MSG new testament was published in 1993. The ISV new testament was published in 1998. This seems to fit in the theory that translations done in the 1900's use the name Junias while translations done in the 2000's use the name Junia.

Another point of interest is that the NASB is a derivative of the Revised Version. The ESV is also. The NASB 1995 uses the name Junias while the ESV uses the name Junia. This seems to support the theory that bible translations are migrating away from the name Junias and that this migration began around the year 2000.

[paul kimrey]

1st Timothy 2:12is still there it hasn't gone away with your much posting and all your opinions and all of the Greek dictionary and commentary of people of your persuasion.I don't say that you do not have good intentions only that you are scripturally incorrect .

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by paul kimrey

1st Timothy 2:12is still there it hasn't gone away with your much posting and all your opinions and all of the Greek dictionary and commentary of people of your persuasion.I don't say that you do not have good intentions only that you are scripturally incorrect .

Can you explain 1 Timothy 2:15? If you can't then it would appear that any interpretation on 1 Timothy 2:12-15 is on shaky ground.