Bishop Wright's Shame Seminar Rides Into TX

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Chateau d'If

There are two perfectly normal responses which emanate from a person who realizes they have displeased God; guilt, and shame.

So I am not sure shame is necessarily bad.

I do find it odd that an Apostolic preacher would destroy a control tool that produces such wonderful results. Shame has been used to silence critics, marginalize defectors and deter inquisitive-minded individuals from asking the tough questions.

I think if we are paralyzed and wallow in it ... it most definitely can affect our behaviors and choices .. yet even here the focus is self .... from the Pharisee to the suicide victim ... to all of us in between ... an unhealthy focus on self will have negative consequences and even lead a victim to engage in sin against God... that said, it's part of a cycle ... the root is sin.

It has been used in this movement in many ways to ensure conformity.

[The Lemon]

I am on clip 5, and for the most part I like it. I know Bishop Wright very well, and have known him for about 15+ years. This man loves souls.

The only part so far that made me scratch my head was the part about God not loving us, because we won't accept His love. That one got me a little, although I do understand why he said it and were he was going with it.

He is one of my favorite teachers, I'm not saying he is infallible, but he is very good, in my opinion.

[Socialite]

Self-focused or cross-focused?

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Self-focused or cross-focused?

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Self-focused or cross-focused?

The entire subject can be succinctly summed up in your statement. Sin is who we are, the cross provides forgiveness. There is no teaching in UPC on the finished work of the cross and the redemptive value it affords. God deals with us through forgiveness and expects us to do the same with ourselves and others.

Because forgiveness is not taught and grace is greasy...shame, guilt, etc will continue to plaque the religious and in some ways that spirit enjoys keeping the congregants in bondage to the leader...

Here in lies the answer to the sin issue..."love your neighbor as yourself."

[DAII]

I think one type of shame that is being treated here by CW is when shame is brought about on those who did not commit the offense that brought it all about.

Ex: the shame felt by abuse victims, the shame of the illegitimate child

Still rooted in our sin problem and carnality.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by staysharp

The entire subject can be succinctly summed up in your statement. Sin is who we are, the cross provides forgiveness. There is no teaching in UPC on the finished work of the cross and the redemptive value it affords. God deals with us through forgiveness and expects us to do the same with ourselves and others.

Because forgiveness is not taught and grace is greasy...shame, guilt, etc will continue to plaque the religious and in some ways that spirit enjoys keeping the congregants in bondage to the leader...

Here in lies the answer to the sin issue..."love your neighbor as yourself."

Broadbrush much?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

I like Chester Wright, I do agree that Shame is an issue, but the cure is a understanding of our identity in Christ.

The UPCI has historically struggled with the whole finished work of Calvary Concept and having an identity and lifestyle rooted in that work.

Could you elaborate on this thought?

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by DAII

Bishop Chester Wright, of the famed letter denouncing "the relevants among us" , like Mark Johnston, will be riding into Texas ... primarily targeting the Houston area ... with an interesting ministerial campaign ....

See promo video here (definitely a must see) :

http://vimeo.com/20854605

This is the promotional website:
http://shameseminar.com/


This should be interesting .... looks like Rob's hosting one of these too.

Brings up some interesting topics of discussion ... do you agree with each aspect that is attributed to causing shame? What role does a legalistic or extrabiblical culture have in creating "shame"?

Is there any thing about shame that is healthy ... beneficial ... advantageous?

Is shame not part of our carnality?

I've got some other questions about the timing and targeted area of this but I will abstain for now.

When I saw "Bishop Wright" I was hoping for "NT".........oops....

[DAII]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

When I saw "Bishop Wright" I was hoping for "NT".........oops....

NT's a HEAVYWEIGHT!