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  #11  
Old 05-09-2007, 09:10 AM
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Neither. I believe the Spirit gets the gifts operating.
Chancellor,
If we don't yield ourselves the Spirit isn't going to work on it's own. It needs a vessel.
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  #12  
Old 05-09-2007, 09:20 AM
Chan
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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
Chancellor,
If we don't yield ourselves the Spirit isn't going to work on it's own. It needs a vessel.
I disagree! God's Spirit is not subject to anyone. You are elevating man above God by saying the Spirit's working is somehow dependent on us humans.
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  #13  
Old 05-09-2007, 09:47 AM
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I disagree! God's Spirit is not subject to anyone. You are elevating man above God by saying the Spirit's working is somehow dependent on us humans.
I don't think I am elevating man above God. For instance, you could have God wanting to use you in tongues and interpretation and not yield to that.
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  #14  
Old 05-09-2007, 09:52 AM
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Felicity Felicity is offline
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Originally Posted by Chan View Post
Neither. I believe the Spirit gets the gifts operating.
True! But the Spirit isn't going to move on someone to use them in that way if they're unwilling and unyielding.

And again I reiterate.......... prayer and consecration is key. Even then God still needs a willing vessel.
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  #15  
Old 05-09-2007, 10:00 AM
Chan
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Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
True! But the Spirit isn't going to move on someone to use them in that way if they're unwilling and unyielding.
I'm not so sure about that. I don't think Saul was willing and yielded when he came among the prophets and all of a sudden started prophesying. This notion that God is in any way hindered by man is an idolatrous one because it has the effect of placing man above God.

Quote:
And again I reiterate.......... prayer and consecration is key. Even then God still needs a willing vessel.
Of course we need to pray. Of course we need to be consecrated. But we need to pray and we need to be consecrated because it is for our benefit and not because God is somehow prevented from doing something without it.
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  #16  
Old 05-09-2007, 10:02 AM
Chan
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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
I don't think I am elevating man above God. For instance, you could have God wanting to use you in tongues and interpretation and not yield to that.
Well, the Spirit could take control of your tongue and brain and cause you to speak those tongues or speak that interpretation. I've actually experienced this and others have described having the same experience.
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  #17  
Old 05-09-2007, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Chan View Post
I'm not so sure about that. I don't think Saul was willing and yielded when he came among the prophets and all of a sudden started prophesying. This notion that God is in any way hindered by man is an idolatrous one because it has the effect of placing man above God.

Of course we need to pray. Of course we need to be consecrated. But we need to pray and we need to be consecrated because it is for our benefit and not because God is somehow prevented from doing something without it.
But yielding and submission to God is key in being used by Him. When you're in that position you don't place yourself above God.
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  #18  
Old 05-09-2007, 10:04 AM
Chan
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Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
But yielding and submission to God is key in being used by Him. When you're in that position you don't place yourself above God.
But to say that God is somehow dependent on us yeilding and submitting does place us above God.
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  #19  
Old 05-09-2007, 10:27 AM
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Jack Shephard Jack Shephard is offline
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Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
Tongues and interpretation and prophecy ..... the spoken gifts which are always more "visible" were in operation regularly. Perhaps not every single service but regularly.

I've seen miracles of healing but we don't see blind eyes or deaf ears opened often. That's true in the North American church in general and I think it's because we don't HAVE to depend on God as much as many people do in other parts of the world.

As to why we don't see the gifts operated more frequently or more powerfully ......... like I said in my first post I believe it's directly linked to lack of consecration and prayer.

Perhaps some of the preachers will give some input in answer to your questions.
First off anytime the gifts are used, resident, or moving in a service it only happens through HG filled people, i.e. "Gifts of the Spirit." Secondly and maybe the most important, it will happen to the willing, open-hearted, and those with faith in their heart.

Now, Felicity, you are on the right track here, but missing one thing....the spoken gifts are the most notable, as you have stated, but the unspoken gifts could be used in everyservice and not be noticed as much or at all. Example, during song praise and worship the congrecation begans to worship and it begans grow and a deeper worship hits. The leader of the service sometimes will use the gift of Knowledge and Widsom to say whether we will continue in that vein or change the order of a service.

I have known ministers, and lay people to operate in the unspoken gifts frequently and not know exactly what it is that they are doing. Some people make choices and decisions based on what they feel is conscience, but alot of times it is that gift working in them helping them to make that choice. That is one reason why I think the church as a whole needs to have more teaching on the gifts.

Myself I have been used in spoken gifts, and unspoken gifts. There are times I have prophetic words, but other times I know what people are doing in secret times, etc. That all flows from the gifts given by the Spirit. I have heard it said that there is not one person other than Jesus that all the gifts reside in. That can be true, but the most important factor is faith!
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  #20  
Old 05-09-2007, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Chan View Post
Well, the Spirit could take control of your tongue and brain and cause you to speak those tongues or speak that interpretation. I've actually experienced this and others have described having the same experience.
True, I have had that happen and also been in a really bad mood when I got to church and was used anyway. LOL!

I have also NOT yielded out of fear.

He still needs a willing vessel.
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