In The Last Days

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

The last days have to begin ending with something.

But that doesn't mean it has to apply to Adam and Eve sinning.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Days is plural. They were in the last days then and we are still in the last days now

Otherwise God is no longer pouring out His Spirit on all flesh

This outpouring Peter refers to as the promise and the gift which he says

Act 2:39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

Pouring out of the Spirit implies initial giving forth, not requiring pouring out in order for us to receive it today.

If you think of it, the only reason we would say the last days continue from then until now is a futurist persuasion, for nothing in scipture actually says the last days would last millennia.

If we resort to plural versus singular, 1 John 2:18 says John was in the "last time".

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Pouring out of the Spirit implies initial giving forth, not requiring pouring out in order for us to receive it today.

If you think of it, the only reason we would say the last days continue from then until now is a futurist persuasion, for nothing in scipture actually says the last days would last millennia.

If we resort to plural versus singular, 1 John 2:18 says John was in the "last time".

not really, even through early history each generation continued to believe that they were in the last days, with Jesus immediate return. This was preached until about the end of third to the begining of the 4th century.

Then people didnt preach it as much, The roman catholic church came fourth, and the start of preterism shortly following it.

so this was in place before the futurist mindset that we have today, Btw which people from the 2nd century believed in a mellinium reign

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Pouring out of the Spirit implies initial giving forth, not requiring pouring out in order for us to receive it today.

If you think of it, the only reason we would say the last days continue from then until now is a futurist persuasion, for nothing in scipture actually says the last days would last millennia.

If we resort to plural versus singular, 1 John 2:18 says John was in the "last time".

No pouring out of the Spirit means God is pouring out His Spirit on all flesh in these last days

I say "continues till now" because God is still saving souls

Act 2:17 "'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;
Act 2:18 even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.
Act 2:19 And I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke;
Act 2:20 the sun shall be turned to darkness and the moon to blood, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day.
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.'

The term in 1Jn is last hour. It's a different greek word and different intent

Vincents Word Studies
The phrase only here in the New Testament. On John's use of ὥρα hour, as marking a critical season, see Joh_2:4; Joh_4:21, Joh_4:23; Joh_5:25, Joh_5:28; Joh_7:30; Joh_8:20; Joh_11:23, Joh_11:27; Joh_16:2, Joh_16:4, Joh_16:25, Joh_16:32. The dominant sense of the expression last days, in the New Testament, is that of a period of suffering and struggle preceding a divine victory. See Act_2:17; Jam_5:3; 1Pe_1:20. Hence the phrase here does not refer to the end of the world, but to the period preceding a crisis in the advance of Christ's kingdom, a changeful and troublous period, marked by the appearance of “many antichrists.”

[Praxeas]

Last Days
17. in the last days—meaning, the days of the Messiah (Is 2:2); as closing all preparatory arrangements, and constituting the final dispensation of God’s kingdom on earth.

Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., Fausset, A. R., Brown, D., & Brown, D. (1997). A commentary, critical and explanatory, on the Old and New Testaments (Ac 2:17). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

וְוְוְ

[Praxeas]

2 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2 Now ait shall come to pass bin the latter days
cThat the mountain of the LORD’s house
Shall be established on the top of the mountains,
And shall be exalted above the hills;
And all nations shall flow to it.
3 Many people shall come and say,
d“Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
He will teach us His ways,
And we shall walk in His paths.”
eFor out of Zion shall go forth the law,
And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 He shall judge between the nations,
And rebuke many people;
They shall beat their swords into plowshares,
And their spears into pruning 1hooks;
Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
Neither shall they learn war anymore.



The New King James Version. 1982 (Is 2:1–4). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

[Praxeas]

The last days

‘But mark this: there will be terrible times in the last days’ (2 Tim. 3:1). What is meant by the ‘last days’? Some understand it to mean the final period immediately before the return of the Lord Jesus to establish his kingdom. But if we look carefully at this passage it cannot possibly mean that, since Paul warns Timothy to ‘have nothing to do with them’, meaning the kind of wicked people he mentions in verses 1–5.
From other passages in the New Testament, it is clear that by the ‘last days’ is meant the whole Christian dispensation from the first advent of Christ to his second advent at the winding up of history. For example, Peter, preaching on the day of Pentecost, uses this expression in his quotation from the book of Joel. ‘In the last days, God says, “I will pour out my spirit on all people” ’ (Acts 2:17). Peter could not have applied that quotation to what was happening at Pentecost if it meant the days immediately before Christ’s return. Similarly in Hebrews the writer, speaking of God’s revelation says, ‘… but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son’ (Heb. 1:2).
These and other passages therefore must mean that the ‘last days’ began with the advent of Christ and his gospel, and that we ourselves are also living in the last days. When Paul uses this expression, he is not talking about the distant future, but about the present situation and the terrible times that Timothy would face in the course of his ministry.


Williams, P. (2007). Opening up 2 Timothy (64–65). Leominster: Day One Publications.

[Praxeas]

last days

The final epoch of history which is marked by the coming of the Messiah and the establishment of God’s kingdom. In the NT it is portrayed as the period between Jesus Christ’s first coming and the consummation of all things at his return, and is marked by godlessness and the persecution of God’s people.

OT expectation of the last days
The Messianic kingdom Isa 2:2-4 pp Mic 4:1-3 See also Isa 9:6-7; 11:1-9; 65:20-25; Jer 33:15

The restoration of Israel Jer 33:16; Hos 3:5 See also Isa 25:9; Jer 30:9; 50:4; Joel 3:1; Zec 8:23

The day of the LORD Isa 13:6-12; Eze 30:3; Joel 2:11,30-31; Am 5:18-20; Ac 2:19-20

Jesus Christ’s coming introduces the last days
The timing of his revelation 1Pe 1:20 See also Gal 4:4-5

The announcement of God’s kingdom Mk 1:15 See also Mt 12:28 pp Lk 11:20; Lk 4:43; 8:1

The fulfilment of Messianic promise Lk 4:18-21 See also Isa 61:1-2; Mt 11:4-5 pp Lk 7:22

The outpouring of the Spirit Ac 2:16-18 See also Joel 2:28-29; Eze 36:27

Revelation in the last days
Heb 1:1-2 See also Mt 13:16-17 pp Lk 10:23-24; Ro 16:25-26; Eph 3:9; Col 1:26

Redemption in the last days
Heb 9:26 See also Da 9:24; Ac 2:21; Joel 2:32; 2Co 6:2; Isa 49:8; 1Pe 1:18-20

Features of the last days
Godlessness 2Ti 3:1-5 See also Da 12:10

Deception and apostasy 1Ti 4:1 See also Mt 24:4-5 pp Mk 13:5 pp Lk 21:8; Mt 24:10-12; 1Jn 2:18-19

Scoffing 2Pe 3:3-4; Jude 18-19

Persecution Da 11:33-35; Mk 10:30; Lk 21:12-17 pp Mt 24:9-10 pp Mk 13:9-13

Jesus Christ’s return brings the last days to a close
It ushers in a new era Heb 9:28 See also Mt 13:49; 24:3

It is identified with the day of the LORD 2Co 1:14; 1Th 5:2; 2Pe 3:10

Living in the last days
Heb 6:5 Between Jesus Christ’s comings, believers have a foretaste of the age to come. See also Eph 1:19-21; Col 3:1-4; Heb 10:24-25


Manser, M. H. (1999). Zondervan Dictionary of Bible Themes. The Accessible and Comprehensive Tool for Topical Studies. Grand Rapids, MI: ZondervanPublishingHouse.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by acerrak

not really, even through early history each generation continued to believe that they were in the last days, with Jesus immediate return. This was preached until about the end of third to the begining of the 4th century.

Then people didnt preach it as much, The roman catholic church came fourth, and the start of preterism shortly following it.

so this was in place before the futurist mindset that we have today, Btw which people from the 2nd century believed in a mellinium reign

That is not true. It is assumption. It may be correct! But every persuasion claims the early church taught THEIR view and that others came later. Someone is right and everyone else is wrong. lol. So why even speculate like that as though we know TRUE history by rote? The fact is that nothing in the bible teaches LAST DAYS spans thousands of years. If we go by the BIBLE itself, LAST Days are not said to be thousands of years. WE ASSUME that prophecies we thought were futurist due to dispensational teaching spoke of OUR DAY. And then when we notice that Peter, John and the writer of Hebrews referred to THEIR DAY as LAST DAYS, we ASSUME that means they stretch from then til now. But did we not stop to think maybe the last days including NOW is our thought and not actually what the bible meant.

All the quotes Prax makes from commentators mean nothing, really, too, if they have made this same blunder of an assumption.

Many teachings get in our mind and stick and act like a filter that reinterprets what the Bible said and we do not even realizing we are in effect CHANGING the terms and their applications. We run them through a perceptual grid and do not stop to realize the bible did not say the last days would last thousands of years and span the entire church age.

When we read scriptures that speak of the LAST DAYS, stop and think WHY we claim that involves today. Who in the Bible said SPIRIT POURED OUT means EXPERIENCING THE SPIRIT whether now or when it first came? WHO ACTUALLY SAID in the Bible that POURING OUT might not be in the same category as TARRYING, where people are told to tarry now, but tarrying only occurred since at one point the Spirit was not filling anyone until a few days later?

We have these pat answers for LAST DAYS as though the early church THOUGHT they were in the last days, as Nathaniel Urshan claimed, but we KNOW we are. At least he was consistent with distinguishing our day from the early church using the term LAST DAYS.

People say they are in the last days due to earthquakes abounding NOW in a degree not experienced for centuries since the church began. That is not using the term to speak of the entire church age.

It is claimed that thinking the Lord might come in each person's day since the first century is a means of evangelism, when it has not come yet, is not stated in the bible to be the means by which we should stay stirred up. It's adding to the bible to make that statement. Where do we get these extrabiblical assumptions for what God wants as an attitude for evangelism? From the same source that says God told Moses to preach against pants on women in the 20th and 21st centuries?

John and Paul and Peter and the write of Hebrews believing they were ion the last days when the Lord would come MAKES THE HOLY GHOST INSPIRATION OF THEIR WORDS a farce! It was like GOD FOOLING THEM when He had them write they were in the last days just to keep them "evangelistic".

And Prax's comments from scholars are only that. THEIR comments. It is not what the bible actually said.

Let's step back a bit and really glare at our beliefs and honestly ask ourselves why we believe the scriptures the way we do.