We did not wear uniforms

[kingdomapostle]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I agree that here are outward signs. What are they again.... Something about "you will know them by....". What was that again.... Mmmmmmmm

And of course apparel choices COULD be effected by the new found love, and by extension, respect, that every Christian should have toward one another. Meaning, men and ladies, don't dress to purposefully tempt or make jealous -such a goal is not consistent with loving your neighbor.

Why quote someone when making a point...but then you say EXACTLY what they have been saying the whole time? Did you read the thread?

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by kingdomapostle

Why quote someone when making a point...but then you say EXACTLY what they have been saying the whole time? Did you read the thread?

Usually the reason for doing something is far more important then what is being done. In the case of clothing and cloths line preaching, the wardrobe IS the focus and not any principle behind it. If your dressing to respect your neighbor you will not find loop holes to push boundaries in your clothing style. On the other hand if you approach it as a holiness standard simply because "it is and that is how we show we are pencCOSTolllllls!" then you see the Hollywood red carpet premiere type runway that is the UPC camp service.

So I am agreeing somewhat with the whole outer appearance thing but from a different angle then many others do.

[mfblume]

Very enlightening!

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Usually the reason for doing something is far more important then what is being done. In the case of clothing and cloths line preaching, the wardrobe IS the focus and not any principle behind it. If your dressing to respect your neighbor you will not find loop holes to push boundaries in your clothing style. On the other hand if you approach it as a holiness standard simply because "it is and that is how we show we are pencCOSTolllllls!" then you see the Hollywood red carpet premiere type runway that is the UPC camp service.

So I am agreeing somewhat with the whole outer appearance thing but from a different angle then many others do.

There's a bunch of lovely people on the carpet tonight. huge flowers and big bows, some of the most fanciest hair do's and and ten gallons of hair spray that come together like a statue on a womans head...

Its simply marvelous.

Last youth rallie i went to, i felt like a chaperone at a prom.
dresses that really looked like prom, men/teenagers in white suits looked like they was heading to a wedding

untraditinal said it best its the holiness of God that makes us Holy, not the dress we cover our skin with. There is a difference in holiness and modesty

[kingdomapostle]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Usually the reason for doing something is far more important then what is being done. In the case of clothing and cloths line preaching, the wardrobe IS the focus and not any principle behind it. If your dressing to respect your neighbor you will not find loop holes to push boundaries in your clothing style. On the other hand if you approach it as a holiness standard simply because "it is and that is how we show we are pencCOSTolllllls!" then you see the Hollywood red carpet premiere type runway that is the UPC camp service.

So I am agreeing somewhat with the whole outer appearance thing but from a different angle then many others do.

Yes but you quoted me...just make a general statement because Im not arguing this point.

[jediwill83]

yeah I think that whole mindset of "If you dont measure up to this then u aint none of His" is causing spiritual blindness.You're paying too much attention to your physical perceptions to listen to the voice of the Spirit cause you are constantly in a state of judgment against those you see that dont measure up...and if we are deaf to the Spirit in this...what else are we not hearing?...Just a thought.

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

In much of modern Apostolica dress IS how ones salvation is measured. From my memory of being in the church I remember this:

Someone repents, and the people smile.

Someone receives the Holy Ghost, and the people rejoice.

Someone gets baptized in Jesus name and the people shout!

The same person arrives to church a week later dressed to match "the look" and the people KNOW he/she is finally saved!

Maybe because I've never gone to a UPCI church I've never experienced any of this. The church I attend now we do have standards. We do believe strongly in "holiness or Hell". It's preached over the pulpit. I've never seen anyone judged for wearing pants to church. We have people (especially new folks) come in pants just about every Sunday. The pastor discourages it, but it's not preached over the pulpit normally, that's something we deal with later after someone is saved and it's not harped upon we just let them know "this is our tradition and our standard we as you to respect it". I've never seen anyone say they are "more saved" because of the way they are dressed. Our pastor is very realistic and lets us know that holiness is required, but if one falls from grace there is redemption and this is not an easy walk and we need both correction and love and understanding. He makes it clear that if it had not been for God that we'd have no redemption and we are not saved by our own actions but by the Holy Spirit who lives in us. I've never seen a pastor be ugly and nasty towards people, but I do believe especially in this day and age there is a place for correction. There's an emphasis on not being worldly in action and deed, and yes even dress. We shouldn't be tearing people down, but we should still be correcting them and telling them the truth. You can't call yourself a christian and wear booty-skirts and engage in inappropriate sexual behavior. We should govern ourselves with modesty. I don't see why we shouldn't. Even some fundamentalist baptist folks believe this (btw) this isn't only something coming out of the Wesleyan Holiness Movement. Granted I don't think we should be kicking people around with standards, BUT we can't claim to be Christians and just live however we want and not expect correction.

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

yeah I think that whole mindset of "If you dont measure up to this then u aint none of His" is causing spiritual blindness.You're paying too much attention to your physical perceptions to listen to the voice of the Spirit cause you are constantly in a state of judgment against those you see that dont measure up...and if we are deaf to the Spirit in this...what else are we not hearing?...Just a thought.

We should be focusing on the word of God and the standard present there. The scriptures tell us to be Holy as God is Holy, to be as Christ-like as possible. Christ is our measurement for righteousness.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

That is what my grandmother used to tell me...shouting Methodists and praying Baptists...

I know a few of them M & B returning to those roots!!! LOL

[UnTraditional]

While I believe some standards do have a place among the believers, I also believe we have neglected the greater for the lesser. Many believers do have pride in their standards, and in so doing, have ventured into sin because of it. The reason is that the focus of their walk is on their appearance more than their entire life. This is not true of all, but many I have encountered. While I think we should dress appropriately as believers, I see no problem with women wearing women's jeans. I do have a problem with women who have chosen not to wear jeans, but have a seriously bad attitude and use their standard as a baseball bat to beat people over the head with.

Like I said, before someone gets mad, let me say again that I am not saying this of all, but of most of those I have met in person.

True believers love unconditionally, minister freely, praise liberally, worship sincerely, and strive to live godly, all in Jesus Christ. What is on the inside will manifest on the outside, but maybe not as the hardcore standards that some believe are essential to being saved. We are not saved by works, but by grace we are saved through faith.