Allowing children to seek the Holy Ghost?

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You didn't just ask a question, if you even asked one, you made and have made statements. Yes dude, we get it. You are glad you left the UPC. Hello? You sound like a broken record

It's a common practice in this forum. UPC bashing is a sport here...

It's hard for me to believe that having parents that loved you enough to raise you, put a roof over your head, and bring you to church (really ANY church, but ESPECIALLY a church where they teach the TRUTH about salvation) and wanting you to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.... was really THAT HORRIFIC. Seriously, I wake up every morning wishing that I would have been raised in the truth, with two parents in the truth to train and direct me and protect me from some of the things I was exposed to as a child. I THANK GOD the worst things my children MAY ever have to go through is maybe somebody yelling in their ear telling them to get the Holy Ghost (not that I condone shaking them or using violence but I've never personally seen that and I'm not raising them UPC, we're PAW and do things a tad bit differently). I saw three dead bodies (on street corners) by the age of 10. I'd trade going to youth retreats for going home to home from age 8 to age 16 any day.

I'm definitely happy with the fact that I'll be raising them in the truth, and that I'll be providing a home for them where they won't have to go through what I've gone through. I don't think raising my children in a Pentecostal church makes me any worse of a parent.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

Coming here makes me feel as though I must be insane.

Is this really worth a thread? Seriously? Have we really gotten to a point where we believe there are possibly more oneness pentecostals and holiness folks drinking then catholics and lutherans?

I did not say that at all. I am sure more Catholics and Lutherans drink more alcohol than do Pentecostals, as did Jesus Christ himself. that in itself is not bad or good. The question was about alcoholics. Just talking about the facts - I am not trying to inflame anyone here. There are alcoholics that identify with Pentecostals and Baptist churches (tend to be teetotaler) and there are alcoholics that are Lutheran or Catholic. I think we can assume that most of these alcoholics are fringe members regardless of denomination, though there have been ministers busted for DWI in both groups (including UPC) and no doubt general constituents as well.

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

When I was in the world I don't remember any Apostolics smoking weed with us and drinking, and fornicating, most of my friends were catholics, baptists, African Methodist Episcopal, or non-religious and didn't really know what they were. When I left the world, I left alcohol, drugs, fornication, etc. Maybe I'm the only one who did that?
Lord...

Weed is illegal and fornicating is sin, but Jesus drank wine.

If overindulgence and subsequent abstinence been your experience then fine, wouldn't want to change that or change your testimony of deliverance.

"Drinking" as you call it is not really the question. There are some Pentecostals that drink wine and not so long ago it was served for communion alongside the juice at UPC General Conferences (ministers meetings). For the most part though I think Pentecostals and Baptists preach against drinking alcohol.

I don't know how many of your partying friends were lay persons in their churches - most were probably nonpracticing Christians. And we would say the same about Pentecostals that indulged as you describe I guess.

I would not expect the Pentecostals (if practicing and attending church) to be very open about it. They would probably hide it like fornication knowing that many, like yourself, sort of equate the two.

A very small percentage of people that drink alcohol are alcoholics. The question is does hiding alcohol consumption lead to more who overindulge than if it is open and able to be managed in public?

And of course we can't just limit the discussion to those we deem to be on fire for the Lord. The effects of our teachings have lifelong consequences regardless whether the individual is deemed to be practicing his religion properly.

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I did not say that at all. I am sure more Catholics and Lutherans drink more alcohol than do Pentecostals, as did Jesus Christ himself. that in itself is not bad or good. The question was about alcoholics. Just talking about the facts - I am not trying to inflame anyone here. There are alcoholics that identify with Pentecostals and Baptist churches (tend to be teetotaler) and there are alcoholics that are Lutheran or Catholic. I think we can assume that most of these alcoholics are fringe members regardless of denomination, though there have been ministers busted for DWI in both groups (including UPC) and no doubt general constituents as well.



Weed is illegal and fornicating is sin, but Jesus drank wine.

If overindulgence and subsequent abstinence been your experience then fine, wouldn't want to change that or change your testimony of deliverance.

"Drinking" as you call it is not really the question. There are some Pentecostals that drink wine and not so long ago it was served for communion alongside the juice at UPC General Conferences (ministers meetings). For the most part though I think Pentecostals and Baptists preach against drinking alcohol.

I don't know how many of your partying friends were lay persons in their churches - most were probably nonpracticing Christians. And we would say the same about Pentecostals that indulged as you describe I guess.

I would not expect the Pentecostals (if practicing and attending church) to be very open about it. They would probably hide it like fornication knowing that many, like yourself, sort of equate the two.

A very small percentage of people that drink alcohol are alcoholics. The question is does hiding alcohol consumption lead to more who overindulge than if it is open and able to be managed in public?

And of course we can't just limit the discussion to those we deem to be on fire for the Lord. The effects of our teachings have lifelong consequences regardless whether the individual is deemed to be practicing his religion properly.

Most of my "partying friends" in the world couldn't have cared less about religious affiliation. Regardless, as a Pentecostal I don't drink alcohol in a recreational manner (I do at communion). I know very few that do.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

It's a common practice in this forum. UPC bashing is a sport here...

It's hard for me to believe that having parents that loved you enough to raise you, put a roof over your head, and bring you to church (really ANY church, but ESPECIALLY a church where they teach the TRUTH about salvation) and wanting you to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.... was really THAT HORRIFIC. Seriously, I wake up every morning wishing that I would have been raised in the truth, with two parents in the truth to train and direct me and protect me from some of the things I was exposed to as a child. I THANK GOD the worst things my children MAY ever have to go through is maybe somebody yelling in their ear telling them to get the Holy Ghost (not that I condone shaking them or using violence but I've never personally seen that and I'm not raising them UPC, we're PAW and do things a tad bit differently). I saw three dead bodies (on street corners) by the age of 10. I'd trade going to youth retreats for going home to home from age 8 to age 16 any day.

I'm definitely happy with the fact that I'll be raising them in the truth, and that I'll be providing a home for them where they won't have to go through what I've gone through. I don't think raising my children in a Pentecostal church makes me any worse of a parent.

OK, I do want to set the record straight.

There were a ton of good things in my life growing up. I was taught at a young age right and wrong and to love God with all my heart. My parents are truly godly people. Yes, they are pentecostal, and are like a lot of the people in this thread. I have never shared with them any of this because I really don't want them to think that I think they raised me wrong or did not protect me. They do know that I do not believe in altar calls and get very anxious around pentecostal stuff. They basically blame that on improper teaching.

I made the mistake of telling them that I thought I was not taught the gospel in the UPC and it upset them so bad there was tension between us for over a year. I don't blame my parents for anything other than picking the wrong group of people to serve God with. I never once felt any of this craziness that I am talking about directly from my parents. I was always at peace with them and always felt loved. Yet I knew the beliefs, I knew that if I didn't speak in tongues I was not saved and that meant hell.

I grew up in a christian school, went to every Sunday school class, had perfect attendance for 11 years straight. My dad was the Sunday school leader, youth leader, and overall leader in the church. He was teaching the college and career class about holiness right during the middle of our church split and I saw him lose many of the young people he had invested so much time in. And over the years I have seen my parents both suffer because of the movement they are a part of though I have never once heard them complain. My dad is known my many as a great teacher. I saw kids that were older than myself love my parents and almost become dependent on their help. Everyone respected them and still does. The most common question is how could I have left the church with such good parents. Both my brother and sister are in the UPC still. My sister is married to a minister in California and my brother is dating the pastor's daughter at a very popular church in Louisiana so I guess I am the only one with an issue.

The point is that if there was ever a "perfect" UPC home to grow up in it was mine. But my parents still could not shield me from everything.

If you met them, and I am sure there are people on this forum who know them you would never suspect that they could have a long lost black sheep like myself.

So, I am not at all comparing growing up in a godless home with the my family. I want all children to grow up learning about the grace and love of Christ and to learn to love His commands.

All I am doing is trying to find out if people with children would want to protect them from this the type of altar call situation I explained in the opening post.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Do I really sound that bad? Are my questions not legitimate? I am not bashing or hating. I am just wondering if there are any who feel the need to protect their children from this type of environment.

DG,
Hopefully things have changed since you and I were children, and that is the reason for the defensiveness to your post???

My children are all grown now, they came to faith and salvation in a much more natural way. Slowly as they heard the word, they believed and received, and were baptized, and I believe this is the way it should be. But it was not the way it was when I was a child growing up in Texas in the, yes, Prax, the UPC. Fear and intimidation was the norm not the exeception, children were in a ongoing state of fear of Hell and rejection by God. And I am very happy that my children did not have to experience that process, they are believers and loving God, active in their churches. (This was not the approach of my pastor, and late father, rather visiting preachers, youth camps and campmeetings, etc.) We were in tight fellowship with other churches and area revivals, etc, so these methods were very prominent in our lives.

Prax and others, this is a discussion board, and while your experience may not have been the same, you cannot deny what was the norm for anyone else. I was in the mainstream of the Texas UPC, the largest district in the country. I am grateful for what I see as positive change in this area of methods but it has not always been so.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

OK, I do want to set the record straight.

There were a ton of good things in my life growing up. I was taught at a young age right and wrong and to love God with all my heart. My parents are truly godly people. Yes, they are pentecostal, and are like a lot of the people in this thread. I have never shared with them any of this because I really don't want them to think that I think they raised me wrong or did not protect me. They do know that I do not believe in altar calls and get very anxious around pentecostal stuff. They basically blame that on improper teaching.

I made the mistake of telling them that I thought I was not taught the gospel in the UPC and it upset them so bad there was tension between us for over a year. I don't blame my parents for anything other than picking the wrong group of people to serve God with. I never once felt any of this craziness that I am talking about directly from my parents. I was always at peace with them and always felt loved. Yet I knew the beliefs, I knew that if I didn't speak in tongues I was not saved and that meant hell.

I grew up in a christian school, went to every Sunday school class, had perfect attendance for 11 years straight. My dad was the Sunday school leader, youth leader, and overall leader in the church. He was teaching the college and career class about holiness right during the middle of our church split and I saw him lose many of the young people he had invested so much time in. And over the years I have seen my parents both suffer because of the movement they are a part of though I have never once heard them complain. My dad is known my many as a great teacher. I saw kids that were older than myself love my parents and almost become dependent on their help. Everyone respected them and still does. The most common question is how could I have left the church with such good parents. Both my brother and sister are in the UPC still. My sister is married to a minister in California and my brother is dating the pastor's daughter at a very popular church in Louisiana so I guess I am the only one with an issue.

The point is that if there was ever a "perfect" UPC home to grow up in it was mine. But my parents still could not shield me from everything.

If you met them, and I am sure there are people on this forum who know them you would never suspect that they could have a long lost black sheep like myself.

So, I am not at all comparing growing up in a godless home with the my family. I want all children to grow up learning about the grace and love of Christ and to learn to love His commands.

All I am doing is trying to find out if people with children would want to protect them from this the type of altar call situation I explained in the opening post.

It is my hope that my children grow and learn much that I have not been about to teach them, and that they are able to be much more successful in life that my wife and I. I believe my parents desired the same for me and my siblings.

God is greater that my UPC upbringing, and He is greater than my ability to parent my children, thank goodness!!! So, to desire more for our children as followers of Jesus, and in life is natural and good. If we are unable to consider what was good and what was not so good in our heritage how may we lead those that come from us and after us to greater understanding and maturity.

My heritage is a great one, for a foundation for my life, and I desire the same for my children. It is not a slam or a bash of my parents, who loved us and gave their very best for me and my siblings. But, God is greater and will lead beyond their ability, if I can walk in it. I pray that I always will be able to do so.

[LadyRev]

Originally Posted by Sherri

We just had 43 little kids receive the Holy Ghost at our kid's camp for our church campuses. These kids were all ages 6-11, and they spoke in tongues, and were gloriously baptized in His Spirit. What in the world could be wrong with teaching kids about the Holy Ghost and encouraging them to receive it? Our kids are taught to pray in the Spirit daily, and it becomes a natural part of their life - not some weird one time experience at an altar.

We left UPC 20 years ago, but I don't ever want to walk away from the Holy Ghost experience.

[LadyRev]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Interesting ladyrev.

As asidenote perhaps I'll start a new thread. I know Catholics and Lutherans and some other churches embrace alcohol consumption more than most Pentecostals... I am curious whether there are more or less alcoholics in each church. I have no real hard evidence, but I tend to think churches who preach against alcohol may have a greater propensity to crawl inside the bottle when members do indulge. I think this is true on a greater societal level too.

I can make it more interesting. I was 14 years old, a freshman in high school, when God got ahold of me. My friends and I had already been experimenting with alcohol in grade school and high school held the promise of more adventures. I thank God that He had other ideas for me.

As for Catholics and Lutherans embracing alcohol consumption...WISCONSIN embraces alcohol consumption period. My fellow Wisconsinites on here can verify its a serious issue in this state and starts very young. But thats a whole nother topic.

[jaxfam6]

i was baptized at the age of 5 (not sure why i wanted to be at such a young age) i was filled with the Holy Ghost at age 9. My boys have all been baptized before age 10 and all received the Holy Ghost, at different ages but within 3 yrs of each other. Yes I can say I was afraid, afraid that if I died without the Holy Ghost I would not make it to heaven.
as for my boys, they have never been forced to the alter, nor to baptism. they have all come to want baptized by teaching at home, church, and in Bible classes at church. They have come to receive the Holy Ghost, not from SEEKING TONGUES, but from worship and praise of GOD.
It does my heart good to see children and young people worshiping and praising our GOD. He is worthy of ALL our praise.

[jaxfam6]

a recent event at our church. no one here is forced to be worshiping God or seeking God.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...548.1485213876